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Thread: Questions about this path

  1. #11
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    In essence Witchcraft is a secular art, meaning that it is not associated with religion. Therefore 9 out of 10, or maybe 99 out of 100 witchcraft "Traditions" that you see are influenced straight from Wicca, whether they realise it or not(many do, and fabricate their created traditions anyway), which IS a religious Witchcraft Tradition. Any witchcraft "Tradition" that you see acknowledging holy days, altars, deities, ritual tools(taken from ceremonial magick, the "k" being added by English occultist and magician Aleister Crowley for gematria purposes, and yes, many cunning man were familiar with ceremonial magic) , e.tc., are influenced by Wicca. The Witchcraft museum in Cornwall is not without its Wiccan influence, as it was formed in it's earlier state by Gerald Gardner himself, and later established by his mate Cecil Williamson.

    Out of the historic wise women, charmers, and cunning folk, witch was mostly a derogatory term used for people, or families, with antisocial reputations that used their craft for malice or con games. I would look into the recommended source material by Owen Davies that you mentioned, and Ronald Hutton's The Triumph of the Moon would also be a good recommendation.

    Historic witchcraft, and true traditional witchcraft, was/are culturally specific folk traditions, and these historic people were indeed Christians. These traditions flourished on the outskirts of "English" society(our O.E term of course being Anglo-Saxon origin), in the likes of South England, Wales, Cornwall, The Highlands, Isle of Man, and Ireland. Most of the accusations against traditional witches in Ireland occurred in areas of strong "British" influence, where it's more of an accepted element in Gaelic society with other native Irish adjectives and terms for the traditions(and the same is true with Scottish, Manx, and Cornish terms), which is why Ireland was nearly untouched by certain times of witch prosecutions.
    Semper Fidelis

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    1: Do they have a god and goddess placed on their altars (note: I know that Traditional Witches don't believe in blending like Wiccans do). Let me know if I'm right or wrong.

    I do not worship anything and don't believe in deity, so there are no gods on my altar as I don't have an altar, but a work table. It gets put on it what's needed like how my kitchen counter does when I'm cooking.

    There are some who do believe in deity, but I don't know what they do, as I am not them.

    2: Now I know that they practice folk magic, which isn't the question. The question that I'm asking is that do they employ the same methods that their ancestors used which includes the witch ball, spirit houses, hexes, and curses.

    Yes, because it's really whatever works and gets the job done.

    3: Why don't Traditionals like Wiccans? I mean if it hadn't been for Gardner then they wouldn't have the protection.

    You know, there's a lot of people and facts out there saying that Gardner didn't even come up with Wicca, he was just the front man. Crowley supposedly did a lot of the "work" for him, hence why Wicca is so ceremonial.

    And I don't know of this protection you speak of. There's a reason some of have families that have been practicing this things for more generations than we can count. There were very few people from the small town my great grandmother lived in that didn't know she was a witch when she was alive, and there were even fewer who would cross her. Sounds like we have our own protection^_^


    As for Traditionals not like Wiccans, we have our reasons, from telling us we don't know what we're doing, to we should really do things in service of the Goddess, shouldn't hex, shouldn't curse, not doing this or that correctly. I could go on for a some time, but that's the main things I hear from Wiccans anytime I try to have a conversation with them.


    4: Why is there so much fighting between Traditionals and Wiccans over things.

    Because Wiccans forget that they are practicing a religion and Traditionals are practicing an art. Religion and art can be combined, but when religion tries to dictate art, there's going to be a problem. Art has no set way, no rules. Religion has lots of them.

    5: Do Traditionals view their tools the same as Wiccans, meaning the ritual knife is it used for recreating the great rite or is it, like I've read, used for other things including long-distance magic and I believe weather magic.

    The closest thing to a tool I have is blood letting dagger. It has a specific purpose, to cut flesh. That's the only thing it's used for, not for ceremonial reasons, but because it wouldn't be sanitary otherwise.

    For everything else, it's whatever works and what you have around. Everything and anything can be used, you just have to know what you're doing. Most traditionals believe highly that all you need is desire and the will to get it. Everything else is just filler and icing on the cake, which icing is not needed if you know how to bake a good cake.


    6: What do they call their books that they write there information down?

    Whatever we want. Sometimes it's just called the book. I have a formulary. It has herb listings, ink, waters, oils, powders, etc that I've gathered from other places. It's also not so much for following exactly, but for guidance and reference. As for writing down spells and all that other. That seems like a waste of time.

    7: Do all Traditionals go outside to do their rituals or do some of you stay indoors.

    Are we talking rituals or spellwork in general? I've personally casted while on the Metro. And walking home, plus a few other places. Normally my work is done in my bedroom, since that's were I keep most everything. I use to do things outside, but that was when I lived with my mom and that was because she said weird things went on in the house while I worked, so she made me go outside.

    I'm not a nature person, so outside and me don't get along that well.


    8: Why were bones used in the first place and are they used today? If this is a repeat of another question then I'm sorry.

    Bones have a lot of meaning. They are connections to the dead, guides to our past, symbols of strength and can be shaped into things from jewelry to weapons. They can even be food.

    Now I have a feeling you're talking about casting bones, which yes we still do this. Like I said, bones have many connections to this world and the other, so why wouldn't they be able to help with a few answers...


    Also, in throwing of the bones, another way to do this is with a couple dice, and guess what those were originally made of^_^


    9: Do Traditional witches wear a pentacle around their necks or are they secret about what they do.

    It's not a secret what do. If you ask, I'll tell. I have nothing to hide. However, I don't see the need to run around and tell everyone I met. To me it's like running around and lifting up my skirt while yelling "See, I'm a girl, look at my vagina!"

    But that's just me.


    Now many people do keep it quiet, because there is a lot of stigma around the witch aspect. However, most that I know, don't care if you know one way or the other, we just don't walk around advertising.


    10: What good books do you recommend for me that aren't filled with nonsense.

    Truthfully, every book can be considered to be filled nonsense. It's all how you take what you're reading. If you read something and it speaks to you, then use it. If it doesn't, than don't worry about it. And even then later you should re-read that book and see if it still doesn't speak to you or inspire you in some way. As we learn and grow, we change, and often things we once found silly before, we can later find meaning and truth in. Like Traditional witchcraft, it's all what you make of it.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Indian Orchard MA
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    576
    Quote Originally Posted by kagekarasu View Post
    1: Do they have a god and goddess placed on their altars (note: I know that Traditional Witches don't believe in blending like Wiccans do). Let me know if I'm right or wrong.

    I do not worship anything and don't believe in deity, so there are no gods on my altar as I don't have an altar, but a work table. It gets put on it what's needed like how my kitchen counter does when I'm cooking.

    There are some who do believe in deity, but I don't know what they do, as I am not them.

    2: Now I know that they practice folk magic, which isn't the question. The question that I'm asking is that do they employ the same methods that their ancestors used which includes the witch ball, spirit houses, hexes, and curses.

    Yes, because it's really whatever works and gets the job done.

    3: Why don't Traditionals like Wiccans? I mean if it hadn't been for Gardner then they wouldn't have the protection.

    You know, there's a lot of people and facts out there saying that Gardner didn't even come up with Wicca, he was just the front man. Crowley supposedly did a lot of the "work" for him, hence why Wicca is so ceremonial.

    And I don't know of this protection you speak of. There's a reason some of have families that have been practicing this things for more generations than we can count. There were very few people from the small town my great grandmother lived in that didn't know she was a witch when she was alive, and there were even fewer who would cross her. Sounds like we have our own protection^_^


    As for Traditionals not like Wiccans, we have our reasons, from telling us we don't know what we're doing, to we should really do things in service of the Goddess, shouldn't hex, shouldn't curse, not doing this or that correctly. I could go on for a some time, but that's the main things I hear from Wiccans anytime I try to have a conversation with them.


    4: Why is there so much fighting between Traditionals and Wiccans over things.

    Because Wiccans forget that they are practicing a religion and Traditionals are practicing an art. Religion and art can be combined, but when religion tries to dictate art, there's going to be a problem. Art has no set way, no rules. Religion has lots of them.

    5: Do Traditionals view their tools the same as Wiccans, meaning the ritual knife is it used for recreating the great rite or is it, like I've read, used for other things including long-distance magic and I believe weather magic.

    The closest thing to a tool I have is blood letting dagger. It has a specific purpose, to cut flesh. That's the only thing it's used for, not for ceremonial reasons, but because it wouldn't be sanitary otherwise.

    For everything else, it's whatever works and what you have around. Everything and anything can be used, you just have to know what you're doing. Most traditionals believe highly that all you need is desire and the will to get it. Everything else is just filler and icing on the cake, which icing is not needed if you know how to bake a good cake.


    6: What do they call their books that they write there information down?

    Whatever we want. Sometimes it's just called the book. I have a formulary. It has herb listings, ink, waters, oils, powders, etc that I've gathered from other places. It's also not so much for following exactly, but for guidance and reference. As for writing down spells and all that other. That seems like a waste of time.

    7: Do all Traditionals go outside to do their rituals or do some of you stay indoors.

    Are we talking rituals or spellwork in general? I've personally casted while on the Metro. And walking home, plus a few other places. Normally my work is done in my bedroom, since that's were I keep most everything. I use to do things outside, but that was when I lived with my mom and that was because she said weird things went on in the house while I worked, so she made me go outside.

    I'm not a nature person, so outside and me don't get along that well.


    8: Why were bones used in the first place and are they used today? If this is a repeat of another question then I'm sorry.

    Bones have a lot of meaning. They are connections to the dead, guides to our past, symbols of strength and can be shaped into things from jewelry to weapons. They can even be food.

    Now I have a feeling you're talking about casting bones, which yes we still do this. Like I said, bones have many connections to this world and the other, so why wouldn't they be able to help with a few answers...


    Also, in throwing of the bones, another way to do this is with a couple dice, and guess what those were originally made of^_^


    9: Do Traditional witches wear a pentacle around their necks or are they secret about what they do.

    It's not a secret what do. If you ask, I'll tell. I have nothing to hide. However, I don't see the need to run around and tell everyone I met. To me it's like running around and lifting up my skirt while yelling "See, I'm a girl, look at my vagina!"

    But that's just me.


    Now many people do keep it quiet, because there is a lot of stigma around the witch aspect. However, most that I know, don't care if you know one way or the other, we just don't walk around advertising.


    10: What good books do you recommend for me that aren't filled with nonsense.

    Truthfully, every book can be considered to be filled nonsense. It's all how you take what you're reading. If you read something and it speaks to you, then use it. If it doesn't, than don't worry about it. And even then later you should re-read that book and see if it still doesn't speak to you or inspire you in some way. As we learn and grow, we change, and often things we once found silly before, we can later find meaning and truth in. Like Traditional witchcraft, it's all what you make of it.
    Thanks for answering my questions. I don't wear a pentacle anymore because I like the necklace that I do have which was a free gift from 13moons for ordering a whole bunch of stuff. What I meant about books filled with nonsense was the pink and fluffy kind. Now that book "Mastering Witchcraft' wasn't filled with pink and fluffy stuff and it was one shocking book. I'm looking forward to reading another book this week from another author.

  4. #14
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    Jul 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by kagekarasu View Post
    You know, there's a lot of people and facts out there saying that Gardner didn't even come up with Wicca, he was just the front man. Crowley supposedly did a lot of the "work" for him, hence why Wicca is so ceremonial.
    It is true that Wicca's origins, and the existence of the New Forest coven including what exactly it could have been is left as debatable with difficulty proving, or disproving either, but it's safe to say that Crowley had no conscious involvement with Wicca. I believe we can thank E.W. Liddell for making up that porkie in reference to Francis King hearing about Crowley being paid by Gardner to write Wicca's rituals. Neither were able to provide a source or shred of evidence of such, which Crowley's diary does refute. Crowley didn't have anything nice to say about Witchcraft, and spent his whole life in service to Thelema, so it is very unlikely that he would be involved with promoting a Witch Religion with some of Thelema's material. The fact that Crowley was a good poet, and his influence on Gardner who was initiated into the O.T.O, was all the reason for Gardner to include appropriate material within Wicca's rituals. He borrowed no more from Crowley than he did The Lesser Key of Solomon, Freemasonry, and various other influences. All of these, however, do nothing more than scratch the surface of what The Craft consists of.


    Quote Originally Posted by kagekarasu View Post
    As for Traditionals not like Wiccans, we have our reasons, from telling us we don't know what we're doing, to we should really do things in service of the Goddess, shouldn't hex, shouldn't curse, not doing this or that correctly. I could go on for a some time, but that's the main things I hear from Wiccans anytime I try to have a conversation with them.
    While I know there are people that identify themselves as Wiccans in the public eye who would do this (I've seen examples of it on the net more than a few times) I think it's also worth noting that most Traditional Wiccans keep a low profile. Wicca is a Mystery Tradition that doesn't proselytise or condemn. Within the tradition there's a praxis that's agreed upon, but that doesn't have anything to do with stances or opinions involving the practices of others on the outside.
    Semper Fidelis

  5. #15
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    Sep 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micheál View Post
    It is true that Wicca's origins, and the existence of the New Forest coven including what exactly it could have been is left as debatable with difficulty proving, or disproving either, but it's safe to say that Crowley had no conscious involvement with Wicca. I believe we can thank E.W. Liddell for making up that porkie in reference to Francis King hearing about Crowley being paid by Gardner to write Wicca's rituals. Neither were able to provide a source or shred of evidence of such, which Crowley's diary does refute. Crowley didn't have anything nice to say about Witchcraft, and spent his whole life in service to Thelema, so it is very unlikely that he would be involved with promoting a Witch Religion with some of Thelema's material. The fact that Crowley was a good poet, and his influence on Gardner who was initiated into the O.T.O, was all the reason for Gardner to include appropriate material within Wicca's rituals. He borrowed no more from Crowley than he did The Lesser Key of Solomon, Freemasonry, and various other influences. All of these, however, do nothing more than scratch the surface of what The Craft consists of.




    While I know there are people that identify themselves as Wiccans in the public eye who would do this (I've seen examples of it on the net more than a few times) I think it's also worth noting that most Traditional Wiccans keep a low profile. Wicca is a Mystery Tradition that doesn't proselytise or condemn. Within the tradition there's a praxis that's agreed upon, but that doesn't have anything to do with stances or opinions involving the practices of others on the outside.
    I think keeping a low profile is a good thing. I'm very active on Youtube because I like communicating with those that are on that site. However when it comes down to spells or rituals, minus the one for Japan, I don't believe in showing anything that I do off. I think that spells and rituals should remain secret and those that give people spells, I think, are asking for trouble. I stopped reading Wicca books because they said the same thing almost in all of them.

    I like working magic from the heart, from what comes out of my mouth, and not from a book. I wouldn't tell anyone here what I've done, no offense, but I'll tell you only this. It wasn't pink and fluffy.
    Last edited by Sekhmet Soul30; March 29th, 2011 at 04:38 PM. Reason: Made a mistake in my writing.

  6. #16
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    Adding to what I said before about giving spells is asking for trouble. I think that websites that publish spells or how to be a witch, especially to teens that are not mentally able to handle stuff like this, is wrong. It also gives the church the ammo that it needs. Every where you look there are video's that basically say that teens and children can go on-line and learn how to cast spells and make potions.

    The mystery in these sites are gone. Some of them ask for money or whatever. I think that Wicca should be a mystery and not something for show because things from those websites to the books are only out there to make money. Some of them, and I'm not talking about books that are written by those that are part of Gardner's coven (sorry if I mispelled that) or Alexanderian. Steward Farrar (I hope I spelling his last name right) and his wife has always produced good books. I like The Witches Bible personally.
    Last edited by Sekhmet Soul30; March 29th, 2011 at 04:47 PM.

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