Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 21 to 27 of 27

Thread: Question for the Atheists

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    16
    This is kind of what I'm trying to "figure out" right now. I most definitely don't believe in a deity. Energies and spirits also seem very illogical to me, but I'm having trouble coming back to paganism without at least considering the possibility.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The Colonies
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,479
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLadyGrey View Post
    Energies and spirits also seem very illogical to me, but I'm having trouble coming back to paganism without at least considering the possibility.
    I can see how that would be tricky. The roughest, simplest definition of Paganism that I would give is-- a spiritual focus on the Earth, and agricultural and seasonal cycles; some notion of spirits or spiritual energy is usually part-and-parcel. It wouldn't logically match up, unless you went with really roundabout kinds of pantheism, like the "Earth-as-organism" hypothesis.

    Mind, I sometimes also think spirits and energy work is somewhat illogical. But I believe in it, because I've worked with them and felt them. It's an intuitive, experiential thing. It's something you have to feel and experience on your own (or with others). And if you go into it with an open mind, you might be pleasantly surprised.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    West Virginia
    Age
    29
    Posts
    1,680
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLadyGrey View Post
    This is kind of what I'm trying to "figure out" right now. I most definitely don't believe in a deity. Energies and spirits also seem very illogical to me, but I'm having trouble coming back to paganism without at least considering the possibility.
    Have you thought of Pantheism, specifically Naturalistic Pantheism?
    "If the stars should appear but one night every thousand years how man would marvel and stare." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "Remember your spirituality" - Ganesha to a friend in a dream, 2008



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Here. Now.
    Posts
    3,775
    Have you looked at the Naturalistic Paganism group on Yahoo? We're a group of folks finding our way in Paganism without deities, and usually without energies and spirits, as well.
    If you're lucky you'll find something that reflects you,
    helps you feel your life protects you,
    cradles you and connects you to everything.
    Dar Williams, "The Hudson"

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    176
    If you study atheists for any appreciable length of time, you will begin to realise that the issue very often has nothing to do with whether or not a God or Gods exist, at all.

    The real issue generally reduces down to an unwillingness to tolerate the existence of a higher authority. The main reason why most atheists don't want to believe in a God, is because they think that doing so presupposes that they cannot have complete control over their own existence; and to a certain extent, they're right. I've had Kali demonstrate to me that my life is entirely within her hands; I live or die literally at her pleasure. I can either like that or lump it, and truthfully I don't always like it, every single moment. The one thing I can't do, is change it.

    I have never personally encountered an atheist yet, who I could honestly characterise with the word humble. Atheism is about arrogance, first and foremost. An unwillingness either to subject oneself to a higher authority, or believe that a higher authority is even necessary.

    Part of this is due to the degree of abuse that atheists will tend to have experienced at the hands of Christian clergy, but there are a large number of them, who even if confronted with the idea of a relationship with an acorporeal being which existed purely between the two parties, and required no external mediation at all, still would not want it.
    Last edited by petrus4; July 2nd, 2012 at 12:48 PM.
    "I worship the greatly beautiful one, with limbs the colour of thunderclouds, who is naked and sits on the corpse of Shiva, who has three eyes and earrings made of the bones of two young handsome boys, who is garlanded with skulls and flowers. In her lower left and upper right hands she holds a man's head and a sword, her other two hands bestowing boons and banishing fear. Her hair is greatly dishevelled."

    -- Chapter 13, The
    Brihad Nila Tantra.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by petrus4 View Post
    If you study atheists for any appreciable length of time, you will begin to realise that the issue very often has nothing to do with whether or not a God or Gods exist, at all.

    The real issue generally reduces down to an unwillingness to tolerate the existence of a higher authority. The main reason why most atheists don't want to believe in a God, is because they think that doing so presupposes that they cannot have complete control over their own existence; and to a certain extent, they're right. I've had Kali demonstrate to me that my life is entirely within her hands; I live or die literally at her pleasure. I can either like that or lump it, and truthfully I don't always like it, every single moment. The one thing I can't do, is change it.

    I have never personally encountered an atheist yet, who I could honestly characterise with the word humble. Atheism is about arrogance, first and foremost. An unwillingness either to subject oneself to a higher authority, or believe that a higher authority is even necessary.

    Part of this is due to the degree of abuse that atheists will tend to have experienced at the hands of Christian clergy, but there are a large number of them, who even if confronted with the idea of a relationship with an acorporeal being which existed purely between the two parties, and required no external mediation at all, still would not want it.
    As an atheist, I can assure you that I have no problems whatsoever in tolerating the existence of a higher authority. Higher authorities that I have tolerated are my workplace bosses, my parents (whom I love as well as tolerate), and the elected officials who make and administer the laws which govern my nation (although I may not always agree with them in principle).

    I don't think that I have complete control over my existence. I know that I can lose my job, get struck down by illness, suffer misfortune due to natural catastrophe, etc., at any time.

    I've fortunately never been abused by Christian clergy. But then, I don't come from a Christian background. I have no axe to grind with theists. In fact, I feel that I can learn a lot from theists and I have many theistic friends – belonging to both mainstream and alternative religions.

    Most importantly of all, I try not to generalize entire groups of people.

    I hope that was humble enough for you.

    -- Nephele

  7. #27
     is offline I was not born under a rhyming planet.
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Down Under
    Age
    32
    Posts
    6,524
    Quote Originally Posted by petrus4 View Post
    If you study atheists for any appreciable length of time, you will begin to realise that the issue very often has nothing to do with whether or not a God or Gods exist, at all.
    You're right. It has to do with a belief or lack of belief in a God or Gods/Goddesses and deities in general. That is the issue there.

    Quote Originally Posted by petrus4 View Post
    The real issue generally reduces down to an unwillingness to tolerate the existence of a higher authority. The main reason why most atheists don't want to believe in a God, is because they think that doing so presupposes that they cannot have complete control over their own existence; and to a certain extent, they're right. I've had Kali demonstrate to me that my life is entirely within her hands; I live or die literally at her pleasure. I can either like that or lump it, and truthfully I don't always like it, every single moment. The one thing I can't do, is change it.
    And now you're working from a presupposition that Kali exists. Which is natural for you to do. But we don't work from that position, because we don't believe in it.

    Higher authority as in a divine authority? You're right. We don't believe in it. That's it. No divine deities. And if you equate divine deities to a higher authority we don't believe in them. If you include legal systems into the concept of higher authorities on the other hand you will find that a lot of atheists have no problem tolerating the existence of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by petrus4 View Post
    I have never personally encountered an atheist yet, who I could honestly characterise with the word humble. Atheism is about arrogance, first and foremost. An unwillingness either to subject oneself to a higher authority, or believe that a higher authority is even necessary.
    That is a fairly ignorant statement. Atheism is about a lack of belief in deities. Not arrogance. I have met a lot of atheists who are more than humble. I have also met a lot of theistic people who are extremely arrogant. A lot of us would probably consider the idea that a person would be on a first-name basis and have a close personal relationship with a deity highly arrogant.

    Quote Originally Posted by petrus4 View Post
    Part of this is due to the degree of abuse that atheists will tend to have experienced at the hands of Christian clergy, but there are a large number of them, who even if confronted with the idea of a relationship with an acorporeal being which existed purely between the two parties, and required no external mediation at all, still would not want it.
    You're being directly insulting here, you do know that? You are claiming that atheists are arrogant and essentially that way because they have been abused by the Christian clergy.

    I am assuming you can't even entertain the notion that some people look at the universe logically and rationally, consider all the things in it and all the knowledge we have of it so far and come to the conclusion that the existence of deities are highly unlikely and therefor lack a belief in it.

    The most entertaining part of this is the nerve you have. If I were to sit here in the path specific forums and tell you the only reason people usually feel that Kali speaks to them is because of unresolved issues with a chaotic maternal figure in their lives you would probably consider me very "arrogant"... but of coarse you don't see the hypocrisy in that, do you?
    Last edited by Aeon Flux; July 13th, 2012 at 03:20 AM.
    Previously known as Njorun Alma


    "A mind of the calibre of mine cannot derive its nutriment from cows." - George Bernard Shaw


Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •