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Thread: Revenge and the 3Fold Law

  1. #11
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    "Return to sender" type defenses only reflect maleficium and do not originate it. The evil intent, and therefore the threefold law, attaches to the original sender and not to the person defending.

    The proper way to curse is to work within karma and not against it. It is to be assumed that anyone you wish to curse has done something to truly deserve it, and you're not hexing out of simple spite or as an ego trip. What you ask for then, is not revenge, but justice. Don't send a demon to torment a criminal, only to expose his crimes and attract the attention of the police.

  2. #12
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    Perhaps I'm a bit jaded but all these 3-fold discussions always amuse me. So many speak of Karmic return and sending it back to the person who did something yet it seem's none ever consider what befell them as potential Karmic return to them for some past life issue. Nope, its always they are innocent and its the other person who is getting Karmic debt sent back to them. I just wish I was as pure as it seem's so many indicate when they speak of sending those karmic waves back upon another.

    Here's comes Peter Cotton Tail hopping down the karma trail.....

  3. #13
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    Probably because some of us don't think Past Lives are valid and the whole "I had it coming to me back when I was servant of the Marquis de Saad....or I have this coming back to me from some life where I don't even remember what happened....but I'm sure I just need to sit and take it" is bullshit." *smiles*

    If someone is being attacked, I have no problem with someone defending themselves with a good push back, as long as it fits within their paradigm.

    Turn the other cheek is not in many of our paradigms....but go ahead and be condescending. It speaks volumes.
    Last edited by Twinkle; August 13th, 2011 at 04:38 PM.
    "The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common:
    instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views,
    which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that need altering."


  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinkle View Post
    ..Turn the other cheek is not in many of our paradigms....but go ahead and be condescending. It speaks volumes.
    Actually not condescending at all just simple amusement. Start out with a corrupted notion of the so called 3-fold law then factor in another corrupted notion of Karmic debt and return shake well and you have many modern pagans. Then filter in all the "I'll aid karma in taking affect / effect" against thier supposed guilty party by reflecting or redirecting negative energy. Then one just has to add the x3 multiplyer in application. Of course lets not even look deeply into the sense that energy is neither negative nor positive but simply is, it is the persception of the receiver and originator that gives it a sense of polarity.

    I have no problem with a person defending themselves. Nor am I implying that any situation a person finds themselves in is a result of karmic return, whether it be Eastern usage or western usage. I just find it amusing when the faught is all cast upon another and responsibility of any capacity for themselves is removed. You see it over and over (especially on Pagan boards it seem's) where culprability is ignored for thier own part in any given scenario and blame is cast upon another. Then the fluffy version of the 3-fold law is run out and used to justify why they are not at faught and how it will come back upon the so called "Bad" person. Well the fluffy 3-fold coupled to the westernized sense of karma and how they can "manipulate" it and cause it to manifest against the individual they are pointing at.

    None of that even considering the eastern notion of karma and its impact across multiple lives or down family blood lines or the more Northern concept of family honor and value where ancesteral returns may be passed down family lines.

  5. #15
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    "Karma is not punishment or retribution but simply an extended expression or consequence of natural acts. The effects experienced are also able to be mitigated by actions and are not necessarily fated. That is to say, a particular action now is not binding to some particular, pre-determined future experience or reaction; it is not a simple, one-to-one correspondence of reward or punishment.... Karma is not a theory that says you do this, you will get that, whether good or bad. It says do good work, I'll decide when you'll get good results, when you need it, and not when you want it." -- Parvesh Singla (emphasis mine)


    The police officer who shoots a villain in order to stop him from murdering an innocent is doing "good," not "evil," and does not get bad Karma for his action.
    The man who fires a poor worker for unacceptable work does not get bad Karma for his action.
    The woman who has to steal bread to keep her children from dying of starvation does not get bad Karma for her action.
    The innocent child who inadvertently causes someone to be hurt does not get bad Karma for her action.



    If the motivation is pure, so is the action, "Karmically." If you seek revenge, for no other reason than to "punish" and make yourself feel better, simply to experience joy in someone's suffering...then yes, you are likely to incur some bad Karma, particularly if the whole exercise is making you feel "guilty." But if your motivation is noble, like the protection of others, then a "curse" or other "black" working is no more "evil" than the police officer stopping the would-be murderer.

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  6. #16
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    MonSno: You're assuming that everyone subscribes to the theory that we pay in this life for sins of the past. That is absolutely arrogant, one of the things I've always liked about pagans in general is that so few seem to have the "I've got it totally right and everyone who disagrees with me is just WRONG" mentality.

    Twinkle: Yup you're pretty much saying exactly where I'm coming at with this one. It's like holding up a mirror to someone who is firing a laser at you.

    I don't subscribe to the "turn the other cheek" aspect of the 3fold law. If someone is attacking me you can BET I'm going to defend myself, and if that defense involves reflecting all that negative energy back at the other person I refuse to believe that's a bad thing.

    Actions aren't good or evil, it's intent that colors.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by aynfean View Post
    MonSno: You're assuming that everyone subscribes to the theory that we pay in this life for sins of the past. That is absolutely arrogant, one of the things I've always liked about pagans in general is that so few seem to have the "I've got it totally right and everyone who disagrees with me is just WRONG" mentality. .
    Nope not arrogant at all. You subscribe to a watered down western feel good notion of Karma I subscribe to the original oriental notion of Karma. BUt sorry white light and fuzzy bunnies just doesn't do anything for me.

  8. #18
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    I dunno....I'd say that your concept of Karma is the white light new age fuzzy bunny thing going on, Monsno. Please read Bryon's post.
    "The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common:
    instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views,
    which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that need altering."


  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinkle View Post
    I dunno....I'd say that your concept of Karma is the white light new age fuzzy bunny thing going on, Monsno. Please read Bryon's post.
    I did. I never said or implied that it was from good or bad only a ripple that goes outward from an action. Then said karmic action is added to or subtracted away until one goes through life and accrues no karmic debt. Arriving at the point where nothing is gained and nothing lost, it just is. But the critical thing is its one own actions or reactions that cause it to accrue or release not the action of another trying to change that karmic weight. Especially not one outside of the blood line that has accrued a family debt through karmic actions in which case only the family can remove or increase that debt.

    In some ways its like a snow ball rolling down hill. You have to wear it away until nothing remains to be free of it. Yet even as it rolls it gathers new material simply by being and the actions the single person takes to remove it or weaken it. Sometimes karmic debt is accrued by ones direct actions to affect / effect it other times through ones actions / reactions to change the ways it shall unfold. But nothing another does is going to impact upon that debt.

    But it sure as heck is not the 3-fold law as most Pagans paint it today. Well not unless they have figured out how to utilize fluid dynamics and keeping adding stones at just the right spot, at just the right moment and just the right angle with just the rigth weight to cause re-enforcement of the initial wave action and cause it to increase.

  10. #20
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    Here's my take on this stuff. The 'Three-fold return' is a poetic phrasing of a basic truth of nature: What one associates with influences one. If you soak yourself in dung, you'll stink.

    The ancients understood this. Warriors who did good for their city by killing others still had to undergo purification rituals because they had committed man-slaying. Ask any cop or soldier whether having social permission to kill actually relieves the psychological burden of the deed.

    So, while one may be righteous in one's curses, turning back ill and stopping ill-doers, it is still likely to involve soaking one's spirit in caustic emotions. A certain sort of person is willing to do this - to do ill deeds, such as binding and killing, for the greater good. It's not easy to live a happy life that way, and most folks would be better off calming our hearts than indulging in revenge, whether accomplished with a spell or a baseball bat.

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