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Thread: On Overweight Pagans

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woden's Spear View Post
    Mind you, I don't eat food just because it's there. But I won't stint myself, and go vegetarian. Yes, yes, poor animals being thrown whole into a meat grinder. Spare me the gory details. At least I'm not ripping the animal's stomach out, and pulling its hot guts out with my teeth, while it screams and rolls its eyes pitifully. If I were an actual carnivore, like a lion, or a wolf, that would be the case. .
    First, being vegetarian isn't "stinting". If you want to eat meat, then that's your choice, but it's hardly a stint. I am a vegetarian not because animals die for food, but because animals suffer. Factory farming is not minutes of suffering, it is a lifetime.

    Also, if you watch nature documentaries (or real life) you will see that (for cats, at least) the instinct is to go for the throat, tear or at least sever the jugular, and render the animal unconscious until it bleeds to death. It's not in the interest of a predator to have to keep fighting it's struggling prey while it tries to eat. Of course it happens, but it's not the norm ... and as I said, humans make animals suffer for life (unless you choose free-range, which may or may not be more humane depending on laws) for their food, not just the few seconds/minutes before death. There's a big difference.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliotrope View Post
    Other people's weight shouldn't matter to you anyway, OP, and tying weight to spirituality is just plain ridiculous. Pagans are fat because Christians are fat. Shitty answer for shitty question.
    I should have clarified my question more: why are so many pagans not healthy when paganism in general focuses on the beauty of nature?

    So, that's the difference between paganism and christianity relevant to my question.

    You didn't need to be quite so rude.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by underblackice View Post
    .."if we are nature-worshipping, and appreciate both what we are given (food) and what we have (our bodies), does it not follow that we (because of our religion, not necessarily alone) would want to take care of said bodies?" ..

    I get the feeling that you are all offended by my comments and feel I am attacking over-weight people, or think you shouldn't be able to make that choice. You should, and I never said otherwise. I choose to live as healthily as I can, to try to strengthen my body, to nourish my body, to love everything my body can do. This is part of my spirituality, and I could not feel I was truly honouring nature if I didn't try my best to have the best body I can. ..
    For me personaly the constant imput your inferring and making of honoring nature as an aspect of pagan religions and spiritual practices reeks of Wiccanesq influences and perspective. Not even true Wicca but neo-wicca in that content as Wicca is a fertility religion which borders on respect and recognization not honoring or raising it up to some special status.

    I respect nature and try to live in balance with it but I do not honor nature. Nature is not some lovely dovey thing that will return your love or honoring of it and given the chance will kill you in an instant. Even the notion of healthy living is subjective to the position of who is being spoken to and how they define healthy. The notion of a healthy body and spirit is also subjective as to just what each is. I stand 6 foot 1 inch in height and weight in around 240 by most scales a healthy weight is 1.5 lbs per inch of height which would give me a perfect healthy weight of abt 110 lbs which is far below the weight I held at my best and never felt sicker in my life. Even given 2 lbs per inch that comes in around 150 at max. A scale that differs between male and female with little regard for body mass index and bone mass and structure.

    None of that even considering that an opitium weight and body structure for say long distance hiking and trailing is far different than that used for say heavy weight work for instance. Yet which is more healthy? Both and neither depending upon what one does.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by underblackice View Post
    I should have clarified my question more: why are so many pagans not healthy when paganism in general focuses on the beauty of nature?

    ..
    Again there are so many groups beneath the umbrella term "Pagan" and "Paganism" that the position your appearing to present is at best applicable to only a small percentage of self identifed pagans. Nature by design is cruel and hostile with all things struggling to survive not some place where weakness is awarded and everything is some form of beauty. The Utopian picture your trying to paint is not a valid or true representation of what nature is actually like.

  5. #15
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    OP- I am overweight. I am not unhealthy. Can I run a mile? No. A lot of "skinny" people can't, either. My PCM was convinced that there "must be something wrong with me" and my blood work is perfect. My blood pressure is perfect. I am a healthy individual. Why do you care so freaking much? I enjoy the food that I eat, because I get to eat it. Big freaking deal. I'm happy, both spiritually and physically, and it's nobody's business what my weight is. Just because YOU think that weight should be the deciding factor in health, doesn't mean we all do.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoseKitten View Post
    OP- I am overweight. I am not unhealthy. Can I run a mile? No. A lot of "skinny" people can't, either. My PCM was convinced that there "must be something wrong with me" and my blood work is perfect. My blood pressure is perfect. I am a healthy individual. Why do you care so freaking much? I enjoy the food that I eat, because I get to eat it. Big freaking deal. I'm happy, both spiritually and physically, and it's nobody's business what my weight is. Just because YOU think that weight should be the deciding factor in health, doesn't mean we all do.
    Nah, your heart is totes gonna explode. Everyone knows if you're a single pound overweight, you have ALL THE HEART ATTACKS. ALL OF THEM.

    /s

    Taciturn and prudent, and in war daring, should a king's children be;
    joyous and liberal every one should be until his hour of death.


    The Words of Odin the High One - translated by Benjamin Thorpe

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woden's Spear View Post
    Nah, your heart is totes gonna explode. Everyone knows if you're a single pound overweight, you have ALL THE HEART ATTACKS. ALL OF THEM.

    /s
    Current bet is actually that I'll either spontaneously combust, or just fly apart and become a being of pure energy.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoseKitten View Post
    Current bet is actually that I'll either spontaneously combust, or just fly apart and become a being of pure energy.
    Nah current bet is all pagans are like an episode of Star Trek where the people only take a human form for interaction with other humanoid life forms. Then we simply tun into balls of energy and vanish when we no longer desire to interact with the rest of the bonebags.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by underblackice View Post
    Also, if you watch nature documentaries (or real life) you will see that (for cats, at least) the instinct is to go for the throat, tear or at least sever the jugular, and render the animal unconscious until it bleeds to death. It's not in the interest of a predator to have to keep fighting it's struggling prey while it tries to eat. Of course it happens, but it's not the norm ... and as I said, humans make animals suffer for life (unless you choose free-range, which may or may not be more humane depending on laws) for their food, not just the few seconds/minutes before death. There's a big difference.
    I'm gonna guess by this comment that you haven't spent a lot of time in the wild, have you? Or, owned a cat that was a hunter. Cats are a bad bad example for your post because they are one of the few species of mammals that hunt for sport and vengeance rather than just for food.

    I had a cat once who used to catch mice and play with them until they died. She never ate them. She just killed them. I can also remember a pair of crows that used to sit on the fence and taunt her (squawking, dive bombing, etc). I'll spare you the details of what she did to the crow once she finally caught one of them.

    Have you ever heard an account of a bear attack? Or watched one eat fish in a river? I've seen a bear tear strips off of a salmon while it still struggled to get away.

    Predators don't rip out their prey's throat and politely wait for it to die before they dive in. Predators eat their prey while it is bleeding and dying and most of the time very conscious. I'm not even going to go into what gross things bugs and reptiles do to their prey.

    Humans are the only creatures on this planet that have any notion at all of humane killing. This world is a violent place. It is indescribably beautiful too, but to deny the unpleasant things, the decay, rot, death, blood, and pain, is to be wilfully blind. Considering that Samhain is just past, I would think that this sort of thing would still be in the front of our minds.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by underblackice View Post
    .. Also, if you watch nature documentaries (or real life) you will see that (for cats, at least) the instinct is to go for the throat, tear or at least sever the jugular, and render the animal unconscious until it bleeds to death. It's not in the interest of a predator to have to keep fighting it's struggling prey while it tries to eat. Of course it happens, but it's not the norm ... and as I said, humans make animals suffer for life (unless you choose free-range, which may or may not be more humane depending on laws) for their food, not just the few seconds/minutes before death. There's a big difference.
    I won't say you didn't watch the documentary but if you did you clearly didn't listen or understand it. The cat goes for the throat because of control. When you control the throat you control its movements, its ability to fight back and you remove any weight advantage it might have over you or speed advantage. It's the safest place for the preditor to be depending upon the prey type and the size of the prey being tackled. For canine's it seems to be positioning to rush in and tear at its flanks and keep it twisting so it can not bring its own defense into play. Doesn't matter the target either as dogs will attack a bear pretty much the same way they attack a deer.

    As far as suffering and playing with ones food that is not unique to humans. The wolverine will kill just to kill and never eat what it killed but soil it so nothing else will either. A feline will play with its prey for hours at a time or inflict significant injury then taunt that creature for hours. It's quite common for adult cats to cripple a creature then leave it to its young to learn to kill or simply play with it as it dies. Watch what a killer whale does to seals sometime to see true enjoyment in torture of ones prey and screwing with its mind and emotions. Dolphins also are renouned for corraling thier prey into kill zones where they control the situation.

    Personaly the major issue I see with meat eaters is that the parts that are usually the most benefitting are the parts that are thrown away or feed to the animals. Liver, heart and other internals are the parts that are taken first by many preditors as they hold the most nutrients. In deep winter you'll occasionally find kills where those items where taken and the so called better meat left to rot as it has little nutritional value and takes a lot of enerrgy to digest and breakdown. Yet in many ways I think it has a certian taboo about eating them though you'll still find many people who will do so.

    I won't deny that many factory farms are horrible and are at best living hells for the creature awaiting to die. Yet they also exist because people allow them to and really do not know where their food comes from or how its handled prior to the butcher shop.

    I'll just leave the notion of vegetarian and vegan to myself and whether plants can feel or be abused.

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