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Thread: Have you helped someone get to the other side?

  1. #1
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    Have you helped someone get to the other side?

    Not just teach them to travel but helping them get their spirit to leave their body, permanently. And if you did, how did you go about it? Did you link minds or speak aloud or telepathically? Did you take them astral traveling to show them the joy of being free from a broken body? I would really like to know if you have been there, done that. Please tell me your truths.
    Another beautiful day in the state of denial.

  2. #2
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    Just for clarification I am presuming two things from your opening here.

    1. By other side I am presuming your referring to psychopomp activities, ie assisting the spirits of the deceased after they have dropped their earthly garb. That is the only other-side I am aware of the. In which case you are acting as a Spirit Keeper or Spirit Guide for the deceased.

    2. You seem to be inferring suicide on their part by suggesting being free from a broken body. A position I presume to be reference by your statement or suggestion of leaving their body permanently. A person who dies their body will naturally leave their body and doesn't have to be enticed to do so. Yet a spirit that is deceived or killed so quickly they fail to realize they are dead may refuse to accept they have died. However, suicide doesn't ensure a spirit becomes free of the pain of the physical body nor the mental anguish of having been in that body.

    But before I jump to a final conclusion I'll leave it to you to clarify that you are not endorsing suicide or encouraging it.

  3. #3
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    By other side, I mean Heaven, or spirit realm rather than this physical world.

    The person is not dead, but really isn't able to enjoy life either. The person suffers waiting to leave that body but not going so far as to load the gun.
    I believe that if this person saw the family and friends on the other side, then slipping away would become easy. If I could reunite them then they would
    all be happy for it.

    I am not thoughtlessly encouraging someone to suicide. But I do believe everyone gets to make that choice for themselves.

    Why would the spirit of one who commits suicide still suffer?
    Another beautiful day in the state of denial.

  4. #4
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    Heaven is a subjective idea. Each person or religion / spirituality has their own idea of what it is but doesn't specifically mean that is what it is when they arrive at their final destination. Relatively the same applies with regard to the idea of the spirit realm regarding the spirit of the "Soul" or energetic body. I say idea as again various people have various idea's as to just what it is and how many parts there are to it.

    Regarding death quite frequently there are stages a "Soul" passes through once it has dropped it's earthly garb. If the spirit has released at it's own time then the stages tend to pass relatively quickly and easy. You see it with older people when they have suffered for instance then there is a serene air that settles over them as the release occurs and the earthly garb is dropped. You also feel the gate open and for some even see the "Light" as the ancestors appear to receive the spirit and guide it over the barrier. Those tend to be easy and quick. You can see that same serenity with younger people as well who've accepted their death and made peace with it. You'll also frequently see and feel, maybe even hear, their family and ancestor spirits all about them as the time gets closer. Quite frequently even see the person "Talk" to their family, ancestors, etc as their life spirit begins to merge with the death energy and one energy slowly gives way to the other and they actually reside upon two plains of existence for some amount of time. Not entirely improbable to see "Shades" near them as they start to coax the spirit out of the meat shell and get it to cut the connections.

    Suicides don't usually do that. One reason is even in death they are not ready for death. They seek it not for death but for escape which is not release. So the turmoil remains even once death has occurred and frequently you have a trapped spirit. It is still trapped by the pain of life and its time is truly not finished. On many levels they still cling to life even though they sought to escape life. One reason so many suicides attempt to "Stop" it at the last minute or even reach out in a desperate attempt. Frequently the mind is also clouded, very anguished so the very emotion ties it to the physical and the pain they experienced. Again creating a trapped, earth bound spirit that can't cross and suffers even more. Don't know if you've ever been to a place haunted by a suicides spirit but they are darn depressing and soul sucking. To be honest if your even suggesting it I highly doubt you have.

    Suicides are unlike quick or traumatic deaths in that the quick or traumatic usually happen so quickly they don't realize they have died. In the traumatic many times the soul / spirit jumps as sort of a protection action and the quick happens so quickly the life ended before they realize they died. In those cases the soul may actually linger as the soul doesn't know it's no longer connected to the body.

    Yet that with the suicide again differs in that the suicide frequently still can't shake the pain of the body even though they are dead. For the mind is still connected to the psychological pain. That doesn't even touch upon the conditioned pain upon the spirits spiritual / religious beliefs influence. Just because you drop your earthly gard doesn't mean you drop the conditioning of your beliefs and such, especially in the immediate sense. Our physical world is filled with the spiritual remains of many who've dropped their garb but still suffer because of belief systems or other reasons and their spirits remain earthbound.

    Many times those who drop their garb will also go through upwards of a year to release earthly attachments. Even the most pain filled is still life. It is a different energy than that of death and people once removed from it long for it or for those they left behind. People loose everything and others think they'd be better off dead but know so little and never realize the physical connections that hold our spirits earth bound. Things because haunted or possessed because they held importance to a person in life and the person once dead has to release those attachments. Most people will gradually release them by giving them away prior to death, another thing frequently seen in suicide for instance. Yet those things dearest to us are held to the last instance, why, because in most instance, again the suicide is not in truth planning to go through with it.

    So no, they will not be "happy ever after" if you encourage it. That's fool's folly and to be honest people talking who know nothing about the truth. It's also apparent you've never been a Spirit Keeper and had to work with a departed spirit as it worked through it's earthly attachments so it could cross over.

    But from my perspective, yes, you are thoughtlessly suggesting they commit suicide and trying to condone or justify it. Justify it to yourself, and perhaps to us here as well.

  5. #5
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    Just for curiosities sake, are you (OP) willing to be the Sin Eater for the person you seem to be suggesting do this?

  6. #6
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    I believe that if one travels ahead of one’s passing then one knows some of what to expect when leaving the body.

    I don’t believe in sin so I would not be a Sin Eater. I believe in right and wrong. However, our opinions may differ on what is right and what is wrong.

    Who is there to determine the time of our passing?  If I decided to suicide then I made that determination. IF there is a God and he allowed it...... then it would seem he was in agreement with me.

    No, I have never been a Spirit Keeper.

    So, to my ears, it sounds like you would just let the human go on suffering in a physical body. If, that is not how you would leave them...Then what would you do?
    Another beautiful day in the state of denial.

  7. #7
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    Sorry one doesn't travel in preparation for death. Astral, etheral or journey work is not the same as dying period. The closest one might come is a Near Death Experience N.D.E. and those are not arranged nor planned. You approach the veil but don't actually cross it and tend to come back. Even then you never fully drop the death energy that clings to you and to a degree are marked. In many first nation or aboriginal system's it is one of the requirements for being identified as being touched by the spirits and being marked as one who might be what said to be a medicine person or similar. Regardless death is natural in each case not self induced as the spirits and death claim you not the person taking their own life.

    Being a Sin Eater has little to nothing to do with the idea of Christian Sin in many capacities. For some yes it is about "Eating" a person's sin's and earthly failure's that weight the spirit and soul down and would hold it both earth bound and prevent it's rising into Heaven or the afterlife. Yet it also applies to taking on the responsibilities of assuming the burden for the spirit and paying it's passage in others. To do the rituals, ceremonies, offerings, libations, etc that the person in life failed to do or didn't properly do to ensure he / she crosses. It protects the spirit to ensure it doesn't become a restless spirit. It is to assume responsibility for it's passage, not just be a caretaker for it's passage time. One of the differences between the Spirit Keeper role.

    The Spirit Keeper often one who does not assume responsibility for the spirit or take on its burden but may aide or assist it. May fashion a spirit house or body for it while it lingers between worlds. May speak for it and convey it's wants and needs if any. The Spirit Keeper may also be one who sings the travelling songs for the spirit to sing his / her praise and help the spirit cross over and praise the person. To write the wind songs and call up the winged messengers who cross the veil.

    While there is a similarity between the two the Sin Eater was the more shunned role in many communities as it did have more of a negative Christian connection. The person would actually show up to a final meal and eat breed dipped in a blood like syrup for instance to consume the deceased's actual weighty fought's and negativity. Not to common today though there are still those who do it.

    Suffering is part of life. Overcoming that suffering is also part of life. Sorry using the cop-out of "If there is a God he allowed it" is just that a cop-out. War is part of life but we don't start wars just to have them nor condone them simply because they are part of life. To say the person made or reached the determination to end their life and it is the right one is also a cop-out. At that point the person normally is mentally and psychologically in a place where they are not thinking about how that decision affects / effects things around them. That and the statistics suggests that your conclusions are wrong given the percentage that stop or reach out at the last moment. That a smaller percentage may attempt again or succeed in their attempt doesn't prove they didn't have second thoughts or attempt to stop. Nor does it prove that had they been given other options or venues of aide they wouldn't have tried other alternative paths vice suicide to change their lives.

    Regarding suffering define suffering. Seen far to many people who think another is suffering when many times it is quality of life and human interaction that is suffering. You speak of ending a life yet you've not mentioned changing the condition of living here at all. You've mentioned self determination for ending it yet not once mentioned self determination to better the life or make yourself a part of that life, to become the family that has been lost.

    I'll be honest people amuse me at times. I spent 23 years in the military. Spent a number of years on fire and rescue and serving in the school system dealing with disabled children. Seen pain and suffering up close and personal. Not counting the spiritual side where I've had deceased spirits trapped here and needing help to cross. So many "Suffering" that sat in dark caves only because people didn't have time for them. People passing them by day in and day out acting like Scrooge in the play because they really didn't care. Parents who dropped their children off for sports, clubs, etc and were pulling away before the child even got the door closed at times. Many times leaving the child sitting there waiting and wondering when they'd be back.

    All of them suffering, many deeply and wanting it to end. To end because they were alone and that made the pain that much deeper and bitter. Yet to treat them as human and actually care about them making them alive again and caring about them. that is what I'd do and have done on many occasions. Not suggesting they put a bullet in a gun.

    Sorry one thing I recall from my training, most suicides don't make the decision to suicide they have it made for them by circumstance. Circumstance they believe they have lost control over and see no other way out of. Why not be the light at the end of the tunnel and try to inspire and bring hope instead of simply being part of the negativity? Or as they asked in my classes do you have a darker reason for wanting them to die?

  8. #8
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    I have to admit there is one aspect of your argument that I find interesting, specifically

    If I decided to suicide then I made that determination. IF there is a God and he allowed it...... then it would seem he was in agreement with me
    That seem's to infer, well to me anyway, that if God, or any divinity for that matter, allows something to happen to you then he / she agree's with it. Doesn't matter whether it be one by your hand or another's hand it is done to you so the divinity agree's with it. After all said divinity allowed it to occur. So if a person elects to do bodily harm to you via rape, murder, exploitation, etc you deserve it because their divinity allowed it and must have been in agreement with them to allow them to do it.

    After all you can't logically argue the divinity allowed and agree'd with one action to justify it then say they didn't agree with another when it goes against you (collective usage) when committed by another person. The rape, murder, robbery, etc was condoned and permitted to be performed by the culprit because their divinity agreed with it and agreed with whomever it was to happen to.

    Otherwise your argument about the divine agreeing to the suicide and allowing is a false truth statement. In essence the divinity figure neither allowing nor preventing such act but leaving it up to the person(s) and them alone having to take responsibility and all repercussions upon themselves. Not blaming nor accepting culpability by the divinity but placing it squarely upon the one(s) who committed suicide or suggest they commit suicide and their culpability in the process for encouraging it.

  9. #9
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    Why not healing magick instead?

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