View Poll Results: Are you a former Christian?

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  • Yes

    209 75.45%
  • No

    12 4.33%
  • I still am one

    25 9.03%
  • I never was one

    31 11.19%
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Thread: Former Christians

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~BEBZ~

    As far as I'm concerened those are the best morals out there.
    Geez. No one said Wiccans didnt have morals.

    And what you listed are not morals. Thats a piece of text. A poem. A commandment. A guideline. Call it what you will, but those are not morals. Morals come from the inside and they are a little different in every person whether they are Christian, Wiccan, or Athiest. Yes. Athiests have morals, too.
    Last edited by mol; October 5th, 2004 at 01:50 PM.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mol
    Geez. No one said Wiccans didnt have morals.

    And what you listed are not morals. Thats a piece of text. A poem. A commandment. A guideline. Call it what you will, but those are not morals. Morals come from the inside and they are a little different in every person whether they are Christian, Wiccan, or Athiest. Yes. Athiests have morals, too.
    Cheers! Well said.
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  3. #43
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    i never was one.
    but i practically am one

    i think i know more about Christianity, its history & its theology then most Christians out there...



    but thats a personal choice that has nothing to do with my religous beliefs.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mol
    Geez. No one said Wiccans didnt have morals.

    And what you listed are not morals. Thats a piece of text. A poem. A commandment. A guideline. Call it what you will, but those are not morals. Morals come from the inside and they are a little different in every person whether they are Christian, Wiccan, or Athiest. Yes. Athiests have morals, too.
    I consider harming no one a moral.
    I consider bieng nice to people a moral.
    I consider "do onto others a moral".
    I think your thinking of values, morals are a code of conduct by that you live by. Which this is.

    And she didn't say that Wiccans had no morals, just that they were lacking. I find no need for anything else beyond these. They pretty much cover everything.
    /
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holly Ariadna
    I'm still Christian, I used to be Wiccan though. So I guess I'll say why I left Wicca. I think it lacks a lot of very important morals, as well as the recognition of Jesus as God and Mary as the Mother of God. I also think it's very hypocritical, at least most Wiccans I ran into were.

    i havent read other responces on this thread, but - seriously Holly, Wicca has less morals because it doesnt recognize Jesus as God and Mary as the Mother of God?
    WICCA is hypocritical?

    Take a DAMN good look at your religion before you call any OTHER religion hypocritical.

    Didnt Jesus say - "Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged"?
    Last edited by Morr; October 5th, 2004 at 02:03 PM.

  6. #46
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    Alright guys, let's not turn this into a mud slinging contest. We've hijacked her thread enough. I think we've all answered. We should move on. I think there is another forum for this debate.
    /
    "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it" -Albert Einstein
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  7. #47
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    My history with Christianity is a long and convoluted one. I was raised fom infancy in a church-going family, and my parents did everything from teach Bible study, run Vacation Bible School and act as youth pastors for our jr. high and high school youth groups, to being church steward (recording gifts and tithes given by members), choir members and Sunday School teachers.

    Personally, I have held Bible studies for college students in my off-campus dorm, participated in a puppetry ministry for 5 years, and taught both Vacation Bible School and Sunday School.

    I was deeply involved in the religion (to teach it, you sort of have to be) and in the church. And quite secretly (to most of my family), I left both with some very deep scars and much rancor. There were so many reasons why, that now enumerating them would take more time than I care to discuss them.

    The main idea, though, was basically this: I no longer felt my path lay with Christianity. It was too rigid, its people too shallow and hypocritical, and there was not enough inclusion for me to feel comfortable. Questions went wholly unanswered, queries turned away as blasphemy. A simple "because it's God's will" no longer satisfied. Once I got past the brainwashing stage of taking it all on "faith," it was over for me. The more I studied outside the Bible, the more inconsistencies I found; instead of anchoring me in Christianity, it helped carry me away from it. Once caught in the undertow of truth, I could no longer paddle my way back into it. And I did try--tried for years. I drifted for a while afterward, trying desperately to get back, and found it a futile struggle. Once having seen the holes that gaped in the rhetoric, and seeing that no one had the answers I was looking for (for there were none to be found, and this I truly believe), I had to accept that it was over for me. I was no longer a Christian.

    And I still miss that belonging feeling in a way. Unless you've belonged to a church or a religious group like it, you probably won't know what I'm talking about. But this overweening sense of "I am right, this is where I belong, and I am accepted as right and belonging" just envelops you and keeps you "safe" within the church's grasp. I missed that feeling I had as a child, mind-numbing though it was for me. Once I began to question and find no answers, that feeling began to dissipate, my "otherness" was beginning to show (even to others, not just myself), and I haven't gotten it back since. It's a hard thing for me, even now, with Paganism, this "each unto his/her own." It's a beauty and a curse, for one such as me who has always felt this "I'm ok, you're ok" gestalt. I still miss it, sometimes, but places like MW make it easier. And MW is more true to my life experiences, anyway, as I married a former Muslim man, lol.

    And yes, I do realize that not all Christians/Pagans/Muslims/Atheists/Satanists/Martians are one way. But some DO follow a pattern, hence our ability to label them as such, and it is those particular characteristics that I have come across and then based my opinions and actions on. Not particularly negative or positive, just such that I had to choose one way or the other, and in choosing, chose AGAINST Christianity. Not one Christian could persuade me otherwise.

    Ok, so I apologize b/c I wasn't going to go into all this, but eh, I get wordy, lol.

  8. #48
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    Please do NOT read if you are sensitive about Christianity

    I was Christian from birth to around my early 20’s. I left for the following reasons (in chronological order):

    First, I couldn’t get a sensible answer to logical problems, like “The Bible says that those in heaven will be able to see those in Hell – how could I be happy watching torture?”
    Or “Why did god have to sacrifice himself to himself in order to change a rule he made himself?”

    Etc. More are here: http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/...j4xlogical.htm

    Then I read the Bible, and found lots of nasty stuff, in addition to things that didn’t fit with modern science.
    (discussed in chapter 5 of my history)

    Then I learned about the history of Christianity, and realized it is has had a bloody, cruel history, and that the doctrines were put together by many people in the centuries after Jesus’ death. (discussed in Chapter 6)

    But more than that, the clincher for me was realizing that it seemed to me that the natural results of many of the doctrines were inherently harmful. Not that “a few bad Christians” did bad things, but rather that some of the bad actions by Christians were direct and logical results of doctrine that is found in the Bible. I see three main stages in this. First, a loss of objectivity, as one is encouraged to use the Bible alone as the final authority about what is true and false. Second, a loss of agency, as one makes fewer choices based on what they think is right, and more choices based on “god’s will”. Thirdly, a loss of morality, which directly follows from stage 2, as the person allows meanness or other things (like “lying for Jesus”) because those things help Christianity.

    I’ve detailed those three stages (with biblical support) here:
    http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/...exteffects.htm

    I’ve written my entire story here: (starting at Chapter 1)

    http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/...SE/tjchap1.htm

    I think it is vitally important to respect all people, and many of my loved ones (both friends and family) are Christian. At the same time – I do see the problems I’ve outlined above, and since I was asked why I left Christianity, I answered truthfully. Please – no one use this as an attack on Christians. Mods – if this is over the line, please feel free to delete the entire post.

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  9. #49
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     is offline Conformity is for the simpleminded
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    Umm...I'm almost afraid to post on this thread. I think it is a really interesting topic and good question, but the amount of bickering that results from questions like these (ya know, the two most volitle subjects: religion and politics) make it hard for some to see beyond the tension to the topic at hand. I for one really like to talk about differences, and have no problem with differing opinions, and am just hoping that this thread doesn't get so out of hand that it gets closed down by the moderators.
    On to my response to the question: I grew up in a Mormon household. I'm not sure how truly Christian that is, but I was taught then that it was Christian. I never really questioned anything, I was just happy to be with my family and to belong. As I grew older however, I saw how those people that I knew who acted so righteous on Sunday or put others down for the "sinful" things that they did, also did the very same things. I know now that there are hypocritical people in all religions, people are the same everywhere, but then, in my youth, it really made an impact on me. Also those that were honestly trying hard to live the rules of their religion, were so racked with guilt, and seemed to be living very unhappy lives, hating themselves for any little human infraction that was made. I learned that trying to be godlike, in that sense, was not only impossible, but almost wrong. How can you love yourself and be happy if you cannot even accept yourself for who you are, being human and not a god, so called "failings" and all, and enjoy life as it is here on earth.
    Also the older I got, the more I learned about Christianity. How women were expected to "be fruitful and multiply" and if they didn't, were deemed by alot of the church going citizens that I knew as failures as women, and how they were expected to do as the man said regardless, him being the spokesperson for God and the head of the household. When I learned that in my family's religion they expected that since (they thought) more women would go to heaven than men, then in heaven we would have to be polygamists. I decided that this church just wasn't for me. My dream was to be a business woman, not neccesarily to have children, and be in charge of my own life, and my own decisions. I researched a few other Christian faiths, but just couldn't get over the treatment of women. When I came across Wicca it just seemed to resonate with me. I now had the freedom to be and love me! The right to choose what was right, not just go along with others, and a goddess as well as a god!
    Needless to say, I don't think I will ever go back. But, I would like to hear everyone elses stories. No two people are alike and therefore there are different ways of viewing the divine.

  10. #50
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    I guess I'm just a presumed Christian....in my family it's the "standard" religion, even if it's not practiced....so yeah, that being so, Christianity has never really meant anything to me...
    -RockHound-

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