Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 11 to 15 of 15

Thread: Thelema/Satanism??

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,198
    Here are some key points:
    • Thelema is a magical and philosophical system, not a religion per se.
    • Crowley's Thelema embraces a belief in otherworldly beings, astral travel, Gods, Angels, etc.
    • Thelema maintains a goal of Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel
    • Thelema maintains the use of many Golden Dawn ritual forms, including the LBRP
    • Thelema embraces The Book of the Law as a holy document
    • Thelema uses a multiplicity of magical and spiritual systems, including Kabbalah and Yoga


    There are different forms of Satanism, but most of the above doesn't apply to any of them.
    Please visit my blog!

    Nowadays, every girl with a henna tattoo and a spice rack thinks she's a Sister of the Dark Ones. óWillow Rosenberg

    If that which thou seekest, thou findest not within thee, thou wilt never find it without thee.
    www.deborahlipp.com

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    The Southeast
    Age
    38
    Posts
    480
    Thelema and Satanism get confused frequently due to Crowley's use of names such as "The Great Beast", etc. The are not, however, as has been covered earlier in this thread, the same.
    Sidhe

    If I wanted your opinion, I'd read it in your entrails.


    My astral realmz; let me show you them.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Greencastle IN
    Age
    28
    Posts
    3,223
    Quote Originally Posted by badkitty View Post
    I just read a bit on Thelema and it seems to be similar to satanism, or perhaps I just think this because of the Crowly connection and emphasis on freedom with personal responsibility. Can someone explain some of the differences to me (without yelling if they are offended or find this a dumb question)?
    Thelemites and Satanists tend to get along pretty well. They have their different aims and philosophical frame however they share certain values regarding how they interact with others.
    Thelemites believe you have a right to be you, who you really are and that no one has the right to deny you this nor can they choose your path for you. This is such a core ethos of Thelema, that in Liber Oz (The Thelemic bill of rights) you are permitted to kill those who would deny these rights. A Satanist, would have a similar attitude if you tried to oppress them, however instead of trying to find ones true will, and course of their life which is the harmony between their aspirations and natures, a Satanist would rather just indulge in their base natures and inclination in a way that grants them the greatest means of doing so while still being able to function. Both value the experience, however Thelemites tend to be more philosophical and existential while Satanists tend to focus on the practical human animal. in this regard, Thelema is closer to Luciferianism than Satanism. Both Thelemites and Satanists are pretty live and let live, meaning that if you are just doing your business they don't care but if you make it their business, they care a great deal because now you are putting the consequences of your actions upon them. Some Satanists strongly stand up for others who are being forced to live a certain way while others are more concerned with looking out for themselves. Thelemites, like Luciferians tend to acknowledge that a threat to liberty to one, is a threat to all within that given paradigm and so they are much more likely to be advocates... in their own way of course. Even then though, tough love is recognized as crucial and you have to be willing to meet them if they are to help you. They'll tell you to stop being a victim, but they'll do it by helping rise above that pattern.

    Thelemites bite the apple to know what gnosis is.
    Satanists bite the apple because it is pleasurable to bite the apple.
    Neither denies their yearning here,
    The Thelemite is more likely to share,
    The Satanist will share if you're cool enough
    but both will shoot you if you try to take their apple from them.

    I know Thelemites who have incorporated Satanism into their praxis, though...
    again... they are actually more Luciferian than Satanist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shatril View Post
    I have never studied Satanism, and the explanation given here gives me no reason to want to. However, I have studied some of Crowley's stuff and Bad Kitty, you really need to continue the exploration as what I have studied so far is about Archeangels and Qabalistic, and Hermetic beliefs. Thelema is just part of what Crowley was about really.

    I guess it all depends on how you interpret the Goetiac studies, of summoning deamons. That may interpret in some minds to "Satanism", which I don't think is correct.

    Before anyone starts jumping in my stuff, I will make this disclaimer. I'm very NEW to this, and have not gotten much studying done. So give me a break. OK? I know I know nothing.

    Shatril
    Satanists aren't jerks, they just don't tend to see any valid argument for absolute morals or why they should put others before themselves.
    In fact, LaVeys Church of Satan prevents its members from cruelty to animals and children.
    That's a complete excommunication.
    While they wont make a case for morality, they don't care to pick on those weaker than themselves, that's not considered cool and-
    in the case of animals and children they are esteemed because they are simply themselves, free and (hopefully) un-indoctrinated.
    They may not make a case for morals but will point out the harm forcing someone to think and do as you do.

    I mean, I like them.
    Tsalagi Nvwoti Didahnvwesgi Ale Didahnesesgi
    (Cherokee medicine practitioner of left and right hand paths)
    anikutani.stfu-kthx.net - The Anikutani Tradition

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Europe
    Age
    39
    Posts
    15,442
    I can't comment on Thelema except to say it interests me and perhaps I will learn more about it and incorporate anything within it which makes sense to me and compliments my Satanic beliefs.
    I think most of what has been said about Satanism here is roughly correct although some writers like Shatril can't seem to avoid a rather negative and judgemental assessment.
    One of the problems for any non Satanist trying to get an idea of it from outside so to speak, is that there is no form of Satanic orthodoxy. Even within the various strands of Satanism you are unlikely to find any two people who agree on everything. We tend to be fiercely individualistic in everything including our personal interpretations of what Satanism is.
    Personally I am a Theistic Satanist meaning that I believe there is an actual entity of some kind referred to as Satan which can be connected with. Personally I don't believe Satan to be a God in the normal sense of the word which needs to be worshipped, more an energy to connect with. Having been a Pagan for a long time I also see elements of Satan reflected in many male deities (and some female ones).
    At the same time my philosophy is closely based on LaVeyan Satanism despite not being strictly an atheist.

    Some previous posts may have suggested that the hedonism most Satanists partake in is rather skin deep and lacks much spiritual significance. That may be true for some but many of us actually feel that spiritual growth can spring from indulgence.
    Another previous post seemed to imply that vengeance is a key tenant of Satanism. In fact while we certainly do believe in the right to take vengeance, I wouldn't describe it as a key tennent... It is one of many, up there and equal with protecting and respecting children and animals.
    Last edited by Cassie; October 5th, 2015 at 11:52 AM.
    😈 "It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." Anton LaVey 😈

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Greencastle IN
    Age
    28
    Posts
    3,223
    Quote Originally Posted by Cassie View Post
    I can't comment on Thelema except to say it interests me and perhaps I will learn more about it and incorporate anything within it which makes sense to me and compliments my Satanic beliefs.
    I think most of what has been said about Satanism here is roughly correct although some writers like Shatril can't seem to avoid a rather negative and judgemental assessment.
    One of the problems for any non Satanist trying to get an idea of it from outside so to speak, is that there is no form of Satanic orthodoxy. Even within the various strands of Satanism you are unlikely to find any two people who agree on everything. We tend to be fiercely individualistic in everything including our personal interpretations of what Satanism is.
    Personally I am a Theistic Satanist meaning that I believe there is an actual entity of some kind referred to as Satan which can be connected with. Personally I don't believe Satan to be a God in the normal sense of the word which needs to be worshipped, more an energy to connect with. Having been a Pagan for a long time I also see elements of Satan reflected in many male deities (and some female ones).
    At the same time my philosophy is closely based on LaVeyan Satanism despite not being strictly an atheist.

    Some previous posts may have suggested that the hedonism most Satanists partake in is rather skin deep and lacks much spiritual significance. That may be true for some but many of us actually feel that spiritual growth can spring from indulgence.
    Another previous post seemed to imply that vengeance is a key tenant of Satanism. In fact while we certainly do believe in the right to take vengeance, I wouldn't describe it as a key tennent... It is one of many, up there and equal with protecting and respecting children and animals.
    That is a very good point, just because there may be less emphasis on mysticism, and more ethereal experiences as opposed to experience of the flesh and being human animal doesn't own isn't philosophical, contemplative or lacking a spiritual dimension to them, though the root 'spirit' of that might need a citation regarding what they mean by that. understanding and cultivating a healthy and unhindered expression of the human animal is no easy feat. it shouldn't be assumed Satanists don't have discipline or don't work hard just because they have fewer inhibitions and taboos than most. it takes a lot of psychological struggle to get past the masks and coping mechanisms we internalize from an early age that don't serve human nature. I do think many are too quick to judge Satanists as egotistic and stuck in maya/illusion, however the ego has its purpose. there is certainly truth in Satanism being egotistic, however it isn't the issue it for those of paths that look down on the ego so much, instead Satanism tends to except it for what it is and that right there part of being enlightened. The ego then, becomes a proper vessel and vehicle for understanding life in a very real, raw and visceral way- a way in which many do not see because they are hung up on their moral and otherwise ingrained perceptions. one can say all they want that being egotistic is being stuck in illusion but you know what, what does this say for those who can't see the ego for what it is... are they not stuck in an illusion of an illusion? They think they are ahead but are they really?

    It's like the Ego is an onion, Satanists still have the onion core in this comparison but it is as if they've taken the time to peal off the superficial layers. so it isn't really fair to say say they are superficial or shallow, they've just gotten it down to what they really want and need instead taking on all the layers of societal cushioning. Like you know, who you were in kindergarten before you had to protect yourself from your friends leaving because your mom shopped at goodwill...

    Because so many people will put a Satanist down, point their finger at them saying they are hedonistic will do whatever with whoever, but the satanist isn't usually the one struggling with homosexual desires, or fetishes or liking things outside of the norm for their sex, and these examples are sexual because our perception of sex is so tied into our processing of identity... but it could be anything one would be self-conscious about simply because of the cultural notion that whatever it is, is something to be ashamed of.

    A great thing about Satanism is that you don't need coping mechanisms to cope with or justify what you like, you just be you. when you don't need those coping mechanism to deal with who you are in the here and now, the ego is this monster forcing you to live an unexamined life, very much the opposite here.

    So what if they aren't ascending the tree of life or worrying about how and why they exist in a state that allows for a tangible existence, or whatever that means, that doesn't mean there's no gnosis or enlightenment there, it is just another form of it. Like the yogi who comes back down to bake the rest of their seeds. some people are just more interested in getting them baked and understanding the human condition before moving on to some other existential mess of reality. that's not the life they are in right now, it's not practical to understanding who they are as a flesh and blood being and wont serve those flesh in blood needs... which isn't just sex or needing a tube of ice cream right now, it's the whole shebang of of being human and of interpersonal reactions... there's certain enough within that to get deep.

    and of course you are a unicorn of sorts right because you are a theistic Satanists, which changes things a bit, because you aren't way over on the atheist / purely empirical side of the spectrum?
    Last edited by Humming Bird; October 5th, 2015 at 01:51 PM.
    Tsalagi Nvwoti Didahnvwesgi Ale Didahnesesgi
    (Cherokee medicine practitioner of left and right hand paths)
    anikutani.stfu-kthx.net - The Anikutani Tradition

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •