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Thread: Cherokee deities

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taurwen View Post
    Hey all

    Does anyone here know of a good source online about cherokee gods and goddesses? I'm 1/8th Cherokee, but after searching on google/altavista/ other places not many good results came up.

    Wa-do,
    Taurwen
    Osiyo

    You aren't likely to find anything. There are few legitimate books out there, namely Mooney's work, books by the Kilpatricks and "Turtle Island Liars club"
    I see some of Mooney's work has been pasted here i also see i'm going to have to clarify some misinformation.
    Sadly, there's much fraudulent material out there.
    Mooney's work is a good account of many of the stories and some of the medicine formula though we gets some of the directions wrong for the ceremnial colors, which is surprising enough that it might be argued intentional.. He gets the colors right elsewhere.
    Traditionally the ceremonial round looks like this though the colors are rearranged in certain medicine formula depending on where you in relation to everything:



    These colors are very important, so much so that the most important entities are named after them.
    The words god and goddess are foreign, and it can be hard for outsiders to understand which deities are considered 'gods' and which aren't.
    Cherokee religion is a pantheism, a zootheism and an essence-theism....
    The supreme being Unelanvhi, also called unelatlvhi among other variants is the living way of of things, the living pantheism, and the self-awareness which is beyond.
    This being is not interventionist yet is expressed through the many forces of nature.
    the name means several things, one definition being "apportioner" and this name is often given to the Sun as a stand in.
    The moon is also recognized as an expression of this though arguably often to a lesser extent.
    there is a word for both the sun and moon which also means 'spirit' or 'light', like astral light and this of course is a rough translation into English.
    If you've ever seen those masonic depiction of the higher light becoming the sun, and the suns light becoming the moon, it is like that.
    They are aspects, yet they clearly have their own personalities and are thus very individual.

    The highest 'gods' are the fire, the thunder, the river, sun and moon along with Kanat'i and Selu.
    The fire is the messenger and stand in for life, of unelanvhi here on earth, and this fire comes by lightning-
    and the thunderers are the chief forces and speakers for The Thunderer, unelanvhi.
    Kanati'i is the lucky hunter and Selu is the corn mother. They are also called:
    Hyuntikwalaski Asgaya and Hyuntikwalaski,
    man and woman thunder, they are thunderers and their two sons are known as the thunder twins.
    They aren't always denoted as thunderers in story depending on what is being expressed.
    Some even see them as embodied roles of man and woman thunderer who are more abstract and beyond.
    They are sometimes associated more witht he here and now than the world above and this called
    Itseiyusdi Asgaya and Itseiyusdi Ageyv
    Green man and green women,
    green being the color or center, where you are, where your world is character, the perspective of the character.
    whereas the thunder man and thunder woman be be associated with yellow.
    Story is very powerful medicine in the Cherokee belief system and we see these thunderers come into being depending on the role, archetype and relation given to them.
    Right-relationship is everything, attainment is the balancing and proper relationship of these characters within.
    There is also the teaching of the fourfold nature of things (also the seven-fold but that is for another time)
    The green man and woman are the corssroads and union of the red, white, black and blue men and women.
    These aren't gods so much as the weaving of the stories of gods and men...

    For example there is Kutani, the progenitor of the Anikutani, the old priestly class before the seven-clan system was established.
    He is a fire-bringer, the first of the old fire priests and is considered a red character.

    Galoneda is a character of purity, innocence being where you need to be and sticking to your own business and life's work.
    He's like a Cherokee H.G.A. figure, considered another form of unelanvhi as a guide, and his name was used for Christ in the Cherokee translation of the Bible.
    His character is white, though he can also be associated with yellow-above.

    Tsayi is the trickster, and he is a black character.

    Yvwi Gvnahita is the Long man, the spirit of the running river and his is color is Blue.

    The four colors or essences, can be expressed as masculine, feminine, both or neither.... and also as the four winged Ukten at the highest level.
    The ukten are winged-serpents, dragons if you will... the four thunderers of the directions and represent the four-fold nature of Unelanvhi...
    whom, and many baptist converts don't like talking about this, is often depicted as a Green Winged Ukten.
    In truth the lineage of our priestly cast is from meso/cental-America, via the spread of the Missippi mound-building religious complex.
    Our winged-serpent lord is our interpretation of Quetzalcoatl/Kulkukhan.
    if you can't get passed that just think of Unelanvhiagatiya as the living pantheism.
    We're dealing witht he union of bird and serpent imagery here which is what the name Quetzalcoatl means.

    So the highest entities are the thunderers, the essences and archetypes of nature which are rather abstract, next comes their expressions and then the many animals as spiritual entities.
    However we also see that these are sometimes expressed in animal form and when I call on the the medicine of the animal in a traditional formula I'll say (in Cherokee) "red dog", "white dog" etc... expressing it's qualities witht he color symbolism.
    It is this way whether it is a squirrel, racoon, hummingbird or what have you.... and thus the folk magick is tied to our understandings of ceremonial operation.

    hummingbird and tobacco are also very important because they are gatekeepers and intermediaries.

    Tsalagi (Cherokee0 religion can be hard to understand when all you have are anthropological accounts of the stories, The stories come out of the ceremonial traditions, there's a lot you miss not having been taught the ceremonial system.

    Here is a picture of the four Ukten, remember they yield a fifth.



    There's another Ukten, a wingless one called uktena who is not evil, but bad news if you have to ask.
    He is a brown character, and pretty much the Cherokee Apophis or "Dweller on the Threshhold"
    I do not recommend calling Uktena.

    other entities of note are Stone coat, spear-finger, white bear, katydid,grandmother spider and Tlanuwa- the giant bird who fights the Uktena.
    oh and the sun and moon are sometimes considered heavenly aspects of Kanat'i and Selu, and red man and red woman are in particular stand ins for them.


    Here is a is a flowchart of the pantheon. Keep in mind this is a comparison chart between the Cherokee pantheon and certain forms of traditional witchcraft based on the Luciferian-Qayn cosmology.


    Quote Originally Posted by KellyP View Post
    Glad to hear someone of Native American descent (here in Oklahoma we still call them Indians) is exploring their ancestral culture. Having lived in an area populated by many tribes I see how their culture is eroding away as young people show little interest in learning traditional skills.

    Here are a few things I found doing some searches. Hope they help.

    http://www.cherokeenationmexico.com/religion.html

    http://www.cherokeenationmexico.com/religion.html

    You may have better luck contacting the Cherokee tribal HQ closest to you and asking for a name and email address of someone willing to correspond with you.

    Then you could tell the rest of MW what you have learned.

    Kelly
    pot-bellied druid of the prairie
    It is a serious problem. :'(

    Quote Originally Posted by Taurwen View Post
    Here's some things I found, of the Cherokee Gods and Goddesses. In the second quote, it seems there are two sun goddesses.... I'll have to figure out about that. ---

    [edit]After searching for Igaehinvdo I got few results. But the other sun goddess brought me a lot of results.

    ENUMCLAW: Trouble-making Thunder God.

    The son of KANATI the Hunter and SELU the Corn Goddess, ENUMCLAW and his brother KAPOONIS were known as the THUNDER-TWINS.

    Having consulted with spirits, ENUMCLAW discovered the secret of making fire spears, while his brother KAPOONIS mastered the somewhat easier art of hurling very large boulders.

    Together they caused all manner of mayhem on Earth. Not very amused, Father Sky grabbed both of them up into his domain and put them to use.

    Now ENUMCLAW makes lightning by casting his fire spears down to Earth, while his brother hurls thunderous boulders across the sky.
    Quote Originally Posted by http://www3.sympatico.ca/chartreuse/...rstNations.htm
    [/i]
    Grandmother Spider
    (Spinning Woman, Thinking Woman) The creatress and wisdom goddess of the Cherokee. She wove the universe every day and unraveled the web every night

    Elihino
    The Cherokee earth mother; sister of Igaehindivo (the sun goddess) and Sehu (the corn woman)

    Asgaya Gigagei
    The Red Man or Red Woman invoked by the Cherokee in spells to cure the ill. Asgaya Gigagei is either male or female, depending on the sex of the patient.

    Igaehinvdo
    The Cherokee sun goddess. Sister of Elihino (the earth) and Sehu (maize goddess).

    Unelanuhi
    The Cherokee goddess of the Sun, her name meant "apportioner", she who divided time into units. The world had no sun, so opossum was sent to get one but burned its tail; vulture tried, burning its feathers. Finally, Spider Grandmother wove a web that caught Unelanuhi, the sun, and the people had warmth.

    Selu
    ("corn") Sometimes known as the Cherokee First Woman, she is Kanati's wife. Selu created corn in secret by rubbing her belly or by defecating. Her sons, the Twin Thunder Boys, killed her when they spied upon her and decided she was a witch.
    A lot of this is pure bullshit.
    Enumclaw and kapoonis are not the names of the thunder twins, you can throw that out.
    Also, anytime you here the whole "father sky, mother earth" bit that's a red flag that you've go something vague and general being peddled off as the traditional spiritually of a given tribe.

    Asgaya means man, Ageyv means woman and gigage'i is red. so Asgaya gigegei does not refer to both red man and red woman.
    Hilvhiyui Gigage'i is gender neutral/both though.
    the blurb is correct, you call the man to heal the woman and the woman to heal the man.

    As for that second refference to a sun goddess, already covered that name.

    Elihino is made up as well, there is no 'Cherokee Goddess' by that name.
    In fact if you do a search for this word online you'll find a Dianic site trying to sell this bit, as a Cherokee triple goddess along with Igaehinvdo and Selu.
    Selu is the only one of the three who is legit.. and she can be considered of the Earth goddess type, her mythos involves her being-between worlds and creating the seasons..
    Igaehinvdo is a clever word though....
    Iga = day
    ehi = short for Elohi? (Earth) although it is also close to the word for pain or ache....
    Nvdo = sun, moon or 'spirit'

    Eliquo means plenty, and Elihino is seems close to both that and Elohi.
    I'm being nice however.

    I can see where someone might have created these god-forms and that's pretty cool however acting like they are traditional is misleading.
    granted, whoever came up with them, and I'd like to know may have given that citation just to be ignored as someone copypastad.
    there may be a cool story here, but these aren't traditional names.

    By the way, the way to go for a trinity goddess would be Selu, Nvda (the a indicating the sun) and Ulisi Kanonesgi (grandmother spider)
    Last edited by Humming Bird; October 21st, 2015 at 06:18 AM.
    Tsalagi Nvwoti Didahnvwesgi Ale Didahnesesgi
    (Cherokee medicine practitioner of left and right hand paths)
    anikutani.stfu-kthx.net - The Anikutani Tradition

  2. #12
    Garm's Avatar
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    Just a note of caution might be in order here

    A lot of people would consider this kind of material as cultural property and posting it in the wrong place will draw a huge amount of public censure

    On somewhere like tumblr you will upon notice become pursued by a mob bearing torches, tar and feathers

    If you carefully go through the wicks files you might note that I was once upon a time a culture cop myself but I have since broken ranks with the the party over the extremism of their methods
    Last edited by Garm; December 21st, 2015 at 02:57 AM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garm View Post
    Just a note of caution might be in order here

    A lot of people would consider this kind of material as cultural property and posting it in the wrong place will draw a huge amount of public censure

    On somewhere like tumblr you will upon notice become pursued by a mob bearing torches, tar and feathers

    If you carefully go through the wicks files you might note that I was once upon a time a culture cop myself but I have since broken ranks with the the party over the extremism of their methods
    I am a native practitioner. It is my heritage to share and talking a little about what our cosmology and pantheon actually looks like is better than letting misrepresentation fester.
    Tsalagi Nvwoti Didahnvwesgi Ale Didahnesesgi
    (Cherokee medicine practitioner of left and right hand paths)
    anikutani.stfu-kthx.net - The Anikutani Tradition

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