Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Lesson Five discussion - Ways of Worship

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Location: Location:
    Posts
    3,674

    Lesson Five discussion - Ways of Worship and Feasts

    In Mod. Greek popular songs, proskuneiu is used of a vanquished enemy's act of falling to the ground in token of surrender.

    The AS New Test. translates adorare by ge-eŠū-mÍdan, i.e., to humble oneself. The MHG flÍhen [[to implore]], when it signifies supplicare [[to entreat, beg]],

    Is that related to the word 'prostrate' and does that tell us something about the attitude to worship, one of humbling or abasement?
    Last edited by Nantonos; February 24th, 2005 at 11:39 PM.
    History teaches us this: no-one learns anything from history



    My Photo Album ~ pictures n' stuff

    EPONA.net ~ a scholarly resource. History and archaeology of the goddess Epona.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Location: Location:
    Posts
    3,674
    Since material linked from the lessons assumes that people speak Latin, and quotes from Tacitus Germania in the original:

    apud Naharvalos antiquae religionis lucus ostenditur; praesidet sacerdos muliebri ornatu, sed deos interpretatione romana Castorem Pollucemque memorant. Ea vis numini, nomen Alcis; nulla simulacra, nullum peregrinae superstitionis vestigium. Ut fratres tamen, ut juvenes venerantur

    I thought it might be useful both to point to a complete Tacitus in Latin, to check context
    http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/tacitus/tac.ger.shtml

    and to point to an English translation
    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...3A1999.02.0083
    oh - it only seems to be the first part. Hmm... ok this is more complete
    http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/tacitus1.html

    so for example the above quoted passese from Ger.43 is

    Amongst the Naharvalians is shown a grove, sacred to devotion extremely ancient. Over it a Priest presides apparelled like a woman; but according to the explication of the Romans, 'tis Castor and Pollux who are here worshipped. This Divinity is named Alcis. There are indeed no images here, no traces of an extraneous superstition: yet their devotion is addressed to young men and to brothers.

    However, i can see the benefit of quoting the Latin, as the translation is not very exact. Words like simulacra and peregrinae have specific meanings that the English translation glosses over. Here is a different translation

    Among these last is shown a grove of immemorial sanctity. A priest in female attire has the charge of it. But the deities are described in Roman language as Castor and Pollux. Such, indeed, are the attributes of the divinity, the name being Alcis. They have no images, or, indeed, any vestige of foreign superstition, but it is as brothers and as youths that the deities are worshipped.

    Of course, Tacitus was complaining about 'foreign superstitions' at rome, and holding up the Germans as 'noble savages' to make a point about a supposed simpler, lost golden age at Rome.
    Last edited by Nantonos; February 26th, 2005 at 11:47 AM.
    History teaches us this: no-one learns anything from history



    My Photo Album ~ pictures n' stuff

    EPONA.net ~ a scholarly resource. History and archaeology of the goddess Epona.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Location: Location:
    Posts
    3,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Nantonos
    Is that related to the word 'prostrate' and does that tell us something about the attitude to worship, one of humbling or abasement?
    Never mind.
    http://www.northvegr.org/lore/grimmst/003_02.php
    yes is the short answer (falling to the knees, or bowing deeply, for prayer)
    History teaches us this: no-one learns anything from history



    My Photo Album ~ pictures n' stuff

    EPONA.net ~ a scholarly resource. History and archaeology of the goddess Epona.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    England
    Age
    31
    Posts
    9,744
    'female attire' - how female are we talking? Does it mean simple robes, or a full on dress complete with lippy sortof thing?!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Rollin' In My Sweet Baby's Arms
    Posts
    5,563
    Um, I'm not sure what a 'lippy sort of thing' is, :hehehehe: but since a man's attire likely would have been shirt & trousers, then I'd take it to be a dress or skirt... sounds similar to when a man did seidh...
    Last edited by Rick; February 28th, 2005 at 02:30 AM.
    Administrator
    Moderating Admin & Resident Old Guy


    Battling socialism, crackpotism, communism, extremism, Angels of Punishment & alien invasions since 1968

    Have a & a

    I'll stop eating bacon when they come out with the patch.

    Yellow Dog Moderate

    Rick: I need one of those.
    Elise: You need a tractor with a backhoe & a front loader? What on earth for?
    Rick: To dig holes in the backyard. It's OK, I'd fill 'em back in...

    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey

    Blut und Boden

    "I often wish that I HAD done drugs in the sixties. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks..."
    Rick the Runesinger

    THE LAW OF THE PACK
    Defend the Pack. Respect the elders.
    Teach the young. Cooperate: know your role.
    Hunt when you must, play when you can, rest in between.
    Devour your enemies. Leave your mark. Voice your feelings.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    England
    Age
    31
    Posts
    9,744
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Um, I'm not sure what a 'lippy sort of thing' is, :hehehehe: but since a man's attire likely would have been shirt & trousers, then I'd take it to be a dress or skirt... sounds similar to when a man did seidh...
    I guess what I'm getting at, is were they intentionall dressed as women, or was it just ceremonial robes which were erroneously throught to be female clothing because men usually wore trousers?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Rollin' In My Sweet Baby's Arms
    Posts
    5,563
    Ya know... that's a good question... when I read that passage, I frankly wondered if it weren't referring to the practice of seidh rather than a blot...
    Administrator
    Moderating Admin & Resident Old Guy


    Battling socialism, crackpotism, communism, extremism, Angels of Punishment & alien invasions since 1968

    Have a & a

    I'll stop eating bacon when they come out with the patch.

    Yellow Dog Moderate

    Rick: I need one of those.
    Elise: You need a tractor with a backhoe & a front loader? What on earth for?
    Rick: To dig holes in the backyard. It's OK, I'd fill 'em back in...

    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey

    Blut und Boden

    "I often wish that I HAD done drugs in the sixties. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks..."
    Rick the Runesinger

    THE LAW OF THE PACK
    Defend the Pack. Respect the elders.
    Teach the young. Cooperate: know your role.
    Hunt when you must, play when you can, rest in between.
    Devour your enemies. Leave your mark. Voice your feelings.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •