Adventures (and Misadventures) In Evocation!

[Burning Angel]

Okay...here's the thread I promised john.a. Any of you guys are welcome to pipe in, especially chaotes, as that's the perspective I'll be coming from mainly. Without further ado:

Originally Posted by john.a

Fascinating. I've tried to summon a few in my time as an occultist. I guess I was a bad occultist. =) A mild stomach ache was all I got most of the time I tackled the Goetia.

What, may I ask, is the experience of Goetic evocation like? Are the demons visual? What are they capable of on the material plane?

Damn...you got a stomach-ache too? XD I always get various physical symptoms from evocation...but I'm learning to push them back and ground myself better.

I evoked Paimon...used a system of my own (involving barbarous tongues/glossolalia/titles, names and epithets related to the spirit in question; a personally constructed banishing ritual; and recently a homemade evocation triangle of sorts, to function as a focus for the energy), in a Demonolatry kind of way, so as not to go through all the goofy Ceremonial rigmarole, and also not to insult the Demon or come off as offensive - Anton LaVey had it right. Those who hide in circles from evil forces they wish to work with are cowards and hypocrites...and the demons are only in their face because the Magus struck first Also, if I'm evoking a part of my subconscious, why would all those goofy rituals stir my imagination and get results? Chaos magic is about results...I find you can get a lot done very simply...no muss, no fuss

It's a very cool experience - Paimon wanted to lock horns a bit at first. He was all "I AM YOUR LORD AND MASTER" but I proved my worth...I think it was a test of sorts. When I evoked him the second time he was much more cordial, even friendly. Anyway, the first time I asked for a familiar (still not clear on what that means in Goetic terms, but like a n00b I thought it would be cool ) and I asked for info on evocation, how to be better, etc. The second time got me more coherent info - I think the first time around was just a learning experience.

Anyway he was all fine the second time, and seemed to express some scorn for my evocation of fictional entities...more on that below. It's a chaos magic thing He also told me that books with a "biblical" provenance are better from a medieval standpoint - the Sworn Book of Honorius, the Goetia, the 6th and 7th books of Moses, etc...I am not sure of this but I will try and see sometime.

It's mostly voices without the triangle, but when using the evocation triangle I have had very decent visualizations. Paimon seemed to be very, very hazy...some sort of unclear entity that was barely in the triangle, but my WoW warlock (more below) showed up clearly, although with different hair. Not sure if that's my issue or hers There were no effects on the material plane per se, but past evocations have caused me major stomachaches - like when I did five evocations total from about 10 PM to 1 AM Thanksgiving night, with a mega full stomach and loads of sugary pop in my system

The fictional entities thing is much more rewarding for me - I'm familiar with a system from a chaos magic PDF called the Neonomicon, the Phil Hine technique of Functional Spirits - where you design and evoke a spirit almost on the fly, similar to a servitor...and also I apply the Neonomicon's "system" - which is more theory about evoking various memories and aspects of the psyche - to evoking such things as World of Warcraft characters, and even real people I'll paste in a post from another forum below, referring to my first experiences with fictional/psyche/construct evocation.

More fun for geeks like me than Goetic magic I'm on a roll tonight lol...been dialing random entities like 8 year old me (Go Neonomicon!), Benny from the Boxcar Children kids' mysteries (I owe 8-me that one...he loves those books ), Captain Kirk (had a very clear response from him as the evocation finally clicked!) Superman (one of my best attempts so far...only made one mistake, and that will teach me. I geeked out and remembered that Superman is weak against magic...I was like "oh no I'm hurting you!" and had to switch to a more commanding approach to get him to stick - shows that belief is IMPERATIVE!), and Miles Davis (that one was cool...I could literally hear the master's trumpet notes in my head!) just to see if I can make contact. I don't have any predefined requests lol...but I did make very sold contact with each of those entities, at least as I define it. We'll see if the little "do this for me so I can have a real evocation" things I added on on the fly come to pass or not

Actually, the whole reason I've been doing this at all for the last few hours is because I realized that what I do every night with the memories and basically the mental construct of the girlfriend I broke up with recently, but remain a brother to, is this exact thing - Evocation. It's kinda silly to mention it, but for a year of separation - she lives in Texas, and I live in Wisconsin - I have been summoning her warmth to my side to comfort me after a hard day and to um...do other stuff. That, to me, kinda fits in with chaos magic evocation, especially as defined under the Neonomicon...I just decided to expand the idea.

I'm also high on sugar and a happy Thanksgiving lol...can't sleep for crap. Can anyone give me tips on evocation in general, specifically evocation of non-Goetic, mainly fictional and/or construct (historical/famous/Neonomicon-type stuff included) entities...and also I need to know if when you summon say...Superman if you can just banish him by saying goodbye or if something along the lines of a full banishing ritual is advisable. I think the idea of trying to make myself sleep, then listening to black metal and going "I'm gonna evoke people until I get to sleep...lolz" just made me this hyper, but I wanna be sure

Thanks for your help!

Anyways, since then I have evoked my WoW warlock, like I said, Varg Vikernes of the black metal band Burzum - he still lives, but is very much real when I evoke him...it was frankly my best evocation yet. I have also worked with Phil Hine's Functional Spirits technique (very recommended), making a spirit which pushed my internet download speed through the roof for a short burst, mainly when I visualized him the first time...the energy toll from that was very big, following as it did on the heels of the Varg working XD And I am researching new stuff all the time...the evocation triangle I made really helps, as does having techniques and banishing down...it's a process of constant refinement, but it's really fun and I'm learning. I don't care if there are material gains, honestly...this is the coolest thing I've ever been involved in spiritually or magically and the goal of magic is enlightenment anyway

Sooo....whaddya think? Any suggestions or ideas as to how I could improve? Pointers, comments on the fictional, Neonomicon or more Chaos-y stuff? Next steps? I'm listening, Mighty MWers...EXCELSIOR!

In Chaos,
~Jon "Stan the Man" Page...lol~

[john.a]

Originally Posted by Burning Angel

Anyway he was all fine the second time, and seemed to express some scorn for my evocation of fictional entities...more on that below. It's a chaos magic thing He also told me that books with a "biblical" provenance are better from a medieval standpoint - the Sworn Book of Honorius, the Goetia, the 6th and 7th books of Moses, etc...I am not sure of this but I will try and see sometime.

I've made some chaotes in real life who first introduced me to this "tradition," so to speak. It's fascinating that Paimon told you fictional entities of "biblical" provenance and "medieval" provenance are better. =)

Originally Posted by Burning Angel

The fictional entities thing is much more rewarding for me - I'm familiar with a system from a chaos magic PDF called the Neonomicon, the Phil Hine technique of Functional Spirits - where you design and evoke a spirit almost on the fly, similar to a servitor...and also I apply the Neonomicon's "system" - which is more theory about evoking various memories and aspects of the psyche - to evoking such things as World of Warcraft characters, and even real people I'll paste in a post from another forum below, referring to my first experiences with fictional/psyche/construct evocation.

Is Phil Hine still around? I used to have an internet crush on him. I read his article Sodomy and Sorcery and I was hooked but he hasn't come out with a new book nor has he updated his site.

Originally Posted by Burning Angel

Sooo....whaddya think? Any suggestions or ideas as to how I could improve? Pointers, comments on the fictional, Neonomicon or more Chaos-y stuff? Next steps? I'm listening, Mighty MWers...EXCELSIOR!

Well as the good Catholic I am now, I'd say just join the Catholic Faith. =P But since I'm not allowed too, why not try evoking the spirits from the Necronomicon? (Neonomicon reminded me of Necronomicon.) The Necronomicon's fictional-ity shouldn't be a problem for a chaote.

[Burning Angel]

Originally Posted by john.a

I've made some chaotes in real life who first introduced me to this "tradition," so to speak. It's fascinating that Paimon told you fictional entities of "biblical" provenance and "medieval" provenance are better. =)

That was interesting...I don't understand why biblical authors were better than say...Enochian or something, though. He was referring to books with a specifically biblical attribution - of course we all know that Solomon and Moses and so on didn't really write those books However I can see his point of view - Paimon's been in business for like...a thousand years nearly. To be replaced by say...Bugs Bunny would probably tick him off

Originally Posted by john.a

Is Phil Hine still around? I used to have an internet crush on him. I read his article Sodomy and Sorcery and I was hooked but he hasn't come out with a new book nor has he updated his site.

I believe he is - he's got a different outlook, if I remember right. But I can't remember...damn. There was a thread I read on this just the other night....something about him getting into some Eastern tradition

Originally Posted by john.a

Well as the good Catholic I am now, I'd say just join the Catholic Faith. =P But since I'm not allowed too, why not try evoking the spirits from the Necronomicon? (Neonomicon reminded me of Necronomicon.) The Necronomicon's fictional-ity shouldn't be a problem for a chaote.

Hmmm...a good deal of chaotes actually do work with the Necronomicon, and I'm not that enthused with the actual book - the one written by Simon, as he calls himself. It's mostly for Sumerian magic (ETA - not a strictly reconstructionist system at all. It's quite ceremonial), and a very haphazard system at that, from what I'm told...I will likely look into the actual Lovecraft stories and make some action happen with the big boys from there But I do want to be careful there...fiction or no, those entities have some powerful energies bound up in them. I'm not scared...just...leery lol. Then again if I turn into a zombie I'll still be posting here and hanging out online as usual, so I better learn by doing

I did, however, make some updates to my triangle thanks to the wizard Gandalf...that was the last evocation I've done today and very vivid in terms of the imagery. I have no idea why the triangle works, but it works VERY well. It actually makes images more vivid and gives the visualizations in your head a real anchor...so they can display in the real world, kinda. It's weird. In any case I made some automatic drawing-ish sigils and added a word-sigil for GNOSIS BE MINE, referring to the chaos magic concept of gnosis as an altered state of consciousness, as opposed to the Gnostic gnosis. I think it's a terrible name for it, but whatever works, right? I wanna try the evocation thing again soooo bad but I do believe that it will be time for bed soon. However, regardless of the time I have before work tomorrow I'm down for one more - at least

Also, I've considered looking at Enochian magic some. That's intriguing for sure

In Chaos,
~Jon~

[David19]

Originally Posted by Burning Angel

Hmmm...a good deal of chaotes actually do work with the Necronomicon, and I'm not that enthused with the actual book - the one written by Simon, as he calls himself. It's mostly for Sumerian magic (ETA - not a strictly reconstructionist system at all. It's quite ceremonial), and a very haphazard system at that, from what I'm told...I will likely look into the actual Lovecraft stories and make some action happen with the big boys from there But I do want to be careful there...fiction or no, those entities have some powerful energies bound up in them. I'm not scared...just...leery lol. Then again if I turn into a zombie I'll still be posting here and hanging out online as usual, so I better learn by doing

Just wanted to add, the Necronomicon doesn't have a whole lot to do with Sumerian magic, all it has is some rip offs of Sumerian names, mixed in with other things, but, it's definitely not an example of Sumerian magic at all (that said, I'm sure it's still an workable system if you wanted to use it).

Personally, I want to check out Donald Tyson's Necronomicon series, especially his 'Grimoire of the Necronomicon' , his version actually looks like a very cool one, without ripping off so-called "Sumerian" magic, and, making it something it's not, his version seems a lot more creative, IMO, anyway.

[Burning Angel]

Originally Posted by David19

Just wanted to add, the Necronomicon doesn't have a whole lot to do with Sumerian magic, all it has is some rip offs of Sumerian names, mixed in with other things, but, it's definitely not an example of Sumerian magic at all (that said, I'm sure it's still an workable system if you wanted to use it).

Well like I said, it's not a real system of official Sumerian magic at all...I mean...watchtowers? In Sumeria? Seriously? And I've heard it's not a good system - it's the energies associated with the book that get the results XD

Originally Posted by David19

Personally, I want to check out Donald Tyson's Necronomicon series, especially his 'Grimoire of the Necronomicon' , his version actually looks like a very cool one, without ripping off so-called "Sumerian" magic, and, making it something it's not, his version seems a lot more creative, IMO, anyway.

Damn...I must look at these links, then find PDFs. That sounds awesome!

In Chaos,
~Jon~

[David19]

Originally Posted by Burning Angel

Well like I said, it's not a real system of official Sumerian magic at all...I mean...watchtowers? In Sumeria? Seriously? And I've heard it's not a good system - it's the energies associated with the book that get the results XD

Not sure, haven't tried it, but, then, something doesn't have to be "real" in order to work, like the Mythos of the Necronomicon is completely fictional, but, that doesn't mean you can't results from it, or that the beings in it don't exist on another plane of existence, in some way.

That said, the beings in the Necronomicon Mythos, according to the Mythos, do want the destruction of humanity, so, they can reclaim, or conquer, this plane/realm, so, you have to wonder, all the people who say they've met with the beings in the Mythos are either deluded (very likely) or pawns in the plans of the Necronomicon entities (maybe).

Damn...I must look at these links, then find PDFs. That sounds awesome!

In Chaos,
~Jon~

Since they only recently came out, it's doubtful, you'll find them online, but, the Grimoire one isn't too expensive at all, well, at least, over here, I'm not sure how much it is in the U.S..

[Darbla]

If you're interested in evocation stories, you'll enjoy Imperial Arts' livejournal:
http://imperialarts.livejournal.com/

He has a book on Amazon also called 'Imperial Arts'.

[Burning Angel]

Originally Posted by David19

Not sure, haven't tried it, but, then, something doesn't have to be "real" in order to work, like the Mythos of the Necronomicon is completely fictional, but, that doesn't mean you can't results from it, or that the beings in it don't exist on another plane of existence, in some way.

Of course not! You must have missed the part about me evoking Superman And yes I do believe that Superman, and every entity I've evoked, exists in some form ^^

Originally Posted by David19

That said, the beings in the Necronomicon Mythos, according to the Mythos, do want the destruction of humanity, so, they can reclaim, or conquer, this plane/realm, so, you have to wonder, all the people who say they've met with the beings in the Mythos are either deluded (very likely) or pawns in the plans of the Necronomicon entities (maybe).

Or, perhaps, they're believing in the Necronomicon's stories and Mythos only as far as necessary to get results from it, as per standard chaos magic theory - a good chaote knows he's only believing in something for magical purposes, and doesn't see it as truth per se. The belief is about thoroughly convincing yourself it'll work hardcore, not assuming it's actual scientific fact ^^

That said, there are strands of chaotic thought that indicate that the Mythos entiities do exist, if only because of the energy pushed into them through magical workings...and Phil Hine saw Yog-Sothoth as a guide to the realms of the dead. The classic interpretation isn't the only one...but it's likely the right one

Originally Posted by David19

Since they only recently came out, it's doubtful, you'll find them online, but, the Grimoire one isn't too expensive at all, well, at least, over here, I'm not sure how much it is in the U.S..

Darn I can't get books in the house as yet...but anything he can do I can do too, because the Cthulhu Mythos stories are all available online for sure ^^

Originally Posted by Darbla

If you're interested in evocation stories, you'll enjoy Imperial Arts' livejournal:
http://imperialarts.livejournal.com/

He has a book on Amazon also called 'Imperial Arts'.

Thanks! I'll check that out. Does he discuss practical methods and theory as well?

In Chaos,
~Jon~

[Darbla]

He does straight, by-the-book Goetia evocations. No deviations from what it says in the Key of Solomon. Have you checked out the ceremonial magic forum in the Paths area of MW?

[Burning Angel]

Originally Posted by Darbla

He does straight, by-the-book Goetia evocations. No deviations from what it says in the Key of Solomon. Have you checked out the ceremonial magic forum in the Paths area of MW?

I looked there a long time ago...I'm using other forums for my ceremonial/chaos fix though The Ceremonial forum here is kinda dead >.>

I liked the story he had about Murmur. That one was cool.

In other news, I was in a bit of a meditative mood, trying to contact Paimon last night at work when it was slow (like I said I'm a bit of a demonolator) and I noticed that it was rather hazy...I got the impression a proper evocation would help with the connection. Also, when I went on break I hit play on a Black Funeral song that looked good but I couldn't read the whole title of (the band is led by Michael Ford, a very cool occultist, and the album was some sort of demonic/qabalah-related thing with each song having a sphere of the Qabalah and a demon in the title)...and when I read the rest of the title, the demons in the song were Belphegor and Paimon.

Now that was just a neat coincidence...almost as if Paimon was confirming contact. He's a terribly ornery guy - always trying to do dominance struggles and badmouth me - but I think I can get him in the triangle and talk better. We'll see if this Demonolatry thing is what it's cracked up to be

I have to note - when I use a triangle, it's a focus for energies to manifest in, and it really helps I think. There's no need in my mind to bind entities, whether they be demonic or Neonomicon-oriented

In Chaos,
~Jon~