Messianic Muslims?

[Agaliha]

Originally Posted by Brightshores

Agaliha pretty much covered it in her excellent post. I'd also like to point out that according to my understanding of Islam, I don't think there is a "Messiah" figure at all, not in the past, not in the present, and not expected in the future.

According to the Muslim faith, there have been many prophets, but prophets are not Messiahs, and if memory serves me, Muhammad was to be the final prophet who was to be sent by Allah. There aren't going to be any more. So, the whole concept of a semi-divine or divine "Messiah" who is going to come down, beat up on the bad guys, and lead everyone else back to Allah is completely alien in Islamic theology.

I am not Muslim and I may be wrong, so please correct me if I am.

Thanks! I'm glad it make sense. I was worried it was too jumbled or something

This is where my knowledge isn't as great as most of my focus lately has been on learning salat and things like that. Here's what I do know--

There is a concept of a Messiah, Second Coming, Judgment Day and all of that in Islam, it's just it differs in many regards to that found in Christianity, though I'm sure a Christian can find many familiar aspects. After all, we all follow the same God and we all share common history.

There is a concept of a Messiah in Islam, but it differs than that of Christianity. Jesus (pbuh) will come back and battle the Dajjal (the Imposter, False Prophet) before/during the Last Judgment. There are a ton more details, but I won't get into that now...

Because it's more readily available, here's a snippet from Wikipedia regarding the title of Messiah for Jesus (pbuh) in Islam:

Originally Posted by Wiki

This does not correspond to the Christian concept of Messiah, as Islam regards all prophets, including Jesus, to be mortal and without any share in divinity. Muslim exegeses explain the use of the word masīh in the Qur'an as referring to Jesus' status as the one anointed by means of blessings and honors; or as the one who helped cure the sick, by anointing the eyes of the blind, for example.

So Messiah in Islam doesn't mean a divine, godlike savior as with Christianity. The idea of "Messianic Muslims" is an unncessary and confusing label.

There is also a figure known as the Mahdi, who will be the Redeemer of Islam. He will rid the world of injustice and evil along with Jesus (pbuh) and eventually, there will be universal peace. I believe it's emphasized more so in with Shi'as more so than Sunnis...

It obviously gets far more complicated than this, but I just wanted to get that out there.

& Brightshores you are correct, Muhammad (pbuh) is the final prophet. He has the Seal of the Prophets. So in Islam, the line stretches from Adam to Muhammad (pbuh).

...

[Brightshores]

Originally Posted by Agaliha

There is a concept of a Messiah in Islam, but it differs than that of Christianity. Jesus (pbuh) will come back and battle the Dajjal (the Imposter, False Prophet) before/during the Last Judgment. There are a ton more details, but I won't get into that now...

So Messiah in Islam doesn't mean a divine, godlike savior as with Christianity.

There is also a figure known as the Mahdi, who will be the Redeemer of Islam. He will rid the world of injustice and evil along with Jesus (pbuh) and eventually, there will be universal peace. I believe it's emphasized more so in with Shi'as more so than Sunnis...

Thanks for clarifying and correcting me!! It's been quite a while since I've seriously studied comparative Abrahamic theology, and Islam in particular. Must break out those books again...

[Agaliha]

Originally Posted by Brightshores

Thanks for clarifying and correcting me!! It's been quite a while since I've seriously studied comparative Abrahamic theology, and Islam in particular. Must break out those books again...

You're welcome!
I can see if there are any good sites that get into these things and post them. I should probably make a section for it on the sticky-- Islam: resources, links, etc

Oh and a great book for getting into Islamic beliefs is The Vision of Islam. Here's a Google Book's preview. There's so much info that I had to buy it I still haven't finished it.

[Brightshores]

Originally Posted by Agaliha

You're welcome!
I can see if there are any good sites that get into these things and post them. I should probably make a section for it on the sticky-- Islam: resources, links, etc

Oh and a great book for getting into Islamic beliefs is The Vision of Islam. Here's a Google Book's preview. There's so much info that I had to buy it I still haven't finished it.

Ooh, thanks! I'll check it out.

[Tiberias]

Yes you can, I know many Christians who believe like that .

This is where that Christian vs. follower of Christ thing comes in. You can follow the majority of Christ's teachings and not be Christian. You cannot be Christian and reject the divinity of Jesus anymore than I can start calling myself the African-American Emperor of the Moon with any validity. Self-identification only gets you so far, and when it butts heads with pervasive, well-established definitions that are still held by the majority of the planet, I tend to go with the latter. *shrug*

[Louisvillian]

Originally Posted by Mystic Christian

Can one be a Muslim and a follower of Christ?

Islam holds Jesus of Nazareth to be the messiah and one of the most important prophets, second only to Mohammed. They believe that Jesus will, as in Christianity, return and save mankind.
They just don't view him as divine, and reject any notion of a Trinity.

Originally Posted by Tiberias

I'm not sure Trinitarianism has to prevent a stumbling block. Historically there have been plenty of non-trinitarian Christian sects that stuck around for many centuries (most famously the Arians).

Heh? The Arians were trinitarians. The whole point of the council of Nicaea was to reach an orthodox doctrine on the nature of the Son within the Trinity. Wherein the Arians were declared heretics due to Arius' teaching that the Son was subservient to the Father, and that the Holy Spirit was subservient to the Son.

In any case, you are right that there are and have been many Christian Unitarian sects.

[Tiberias]

Heh? The Arians were trinitarians. The whole point of the council of Nicaea was to reach an orthodox doctrine on the nature of the Son within the Trinity. Wherein the Arians were declared heretics due to Arius' teaching that the Son was subservient to the Father, and that the Holy Spirit was subservient to the Son.

It wasn't simply a matter of Jesus being subservient, Arianism taught that Jesus was created. That's the non-Trinitarian aspect of Arianism. Trinitarianism (at least as it's used today) is not simply believing in three divine figures, but in their special nature as one single (uncreated) godhead.

[David19]

Originally Posted by Agaliha

Really? It might matter what branch of Judaism. I have a feeling that sort of thing is not accepted in Orthodox Judaism, but in Reform it might? Are you saying that they're following Judaism as a religion as well as other faiths (Wicca, etc) or that they're religious Jews in that they're ethnically Jewish and are religious in other faiths while not following Judaism as a religion? Are these people still following the mitzvahs while being a Wiccan? That seems to conflict to me. Interesting, though.

I'm not too sure about Orthodox (although, in 'Jew in the Lotus' some of the Jews described in the journey to meet the Dalai Lama were Orthodox, and practiced parts of it), but, you can both practice Judaism and Buddhism side-by-side, there's actually quite a lot in common e.g. they both place an emphasis on compassion and acts of loving kindness (there's more too).

Jewish Wiccans tend to practice both, like The Shekinah is The Goddess, YHWH is the God (again, there's similarities here too), they place an emphasis on the Shabbat Queen, magic isn't much on an issue (contrary to what some will say, magic isn't banned in Judaism, in fact, many Kabbalistic texts and other Jewish texts deal with developing magical powers).

It depends on the person, though, some adhere to both, or one more than the other, or some mix and match, etc.

[Louisvillian]

Originally Posted by Tiberias

Trinitarianism (at least as it's used today)

That's the thing about it, though. Modern standard definitions of Trinitarianism is affected by the affirmation of the Nicene Creed through several Ecumenical Councils. But, using a somewhat more general working definition for the term, when looking at the development of Trinitarianism over time, Arianism certainly is Trinitarian; just not Nicene.

[Tiberias]

I admit I'm only familiar with the way medieval and modern Christians and current religious historians use the term. I'm curious, though, if you have some knowledge of contemporary references to Arianism as Trinitarian. Everything I can find from the period (admittedly, mostly the work of anti-Arians like Athanasius) sets them in opposition to Trinitarianism. I'm not so sure that simply having three divine beings is enough to qualify, even in pre-Nicaean terminology.