Back to basics?

[Heathen1969]

Hello all!
I just registered after reading several posts and most of the advice that I have gleaned seems to have been given with reverence and humility, without the pretentiousness that inevitably follows. Before I go into what is certainly a block of some sort, it might be helpful to go into what led me to this point.
When I was 16, I went through the born again Christian experience wholeheartedly. At the time, it was what I needed since I lacked direction, confidence and a definition of ‘self’. I merely had to listen to the preacher, read and study my bible and pray often; the rules and rituals were laid out in a one size fits all belief system. I discovered the love that I was so desperately missing! Since I was a long haired rocker turned Christian, I was immediately popular. Keep in mind, this was during the Satanic Panic of the 80’s, and while I embellished my testimony, I was sincere and searching for what I believed at the time, I had found. I experienced many spiritual (?) things, including speaking in tongues, slain in the spirit, spiritual warfare against what I believed to be fallen angels and a rather unsettling ‘vision’ in church during an evangelistic crusade. These experiences combined with several others solidified my belief in the Christian faith.
Fast forward years later, I married, had a good paying job, a new born son and everything seemed to go very well, which allowed me time to think, since most of my needs were met. I was active in evangelizing and sharing my faith with people in an effort to win them to Jesus. While I was zealous, I was grossly misinformed and uneducated, so when I challenged an ‘Evilutiuonist’ to defend his ‘beliefs’, I had my intellectual ass handed to me! I took his challenge to read “Origin of Species”, and I learned that biology (and later on, ALL the sciences) were quite neutral on the subject of God. I sought out books written by people in the field rather than books written by Christians about science, and I learned quickly that my well meaning brothers and sisters were wrong! Naturally, I sought the counsel of Christians much more learned than myself, and I was pretty much told to stop reading things that challenge my faith. This flied in the face of what I believed about Christianity, that it was the De Facto 100% authentic faith/belief system/religion that was absolutely defensible and up until that point, I relished a challenge from an unbeliever, since it allowed the True God to demonstrate His love and power.
Over the years of searching and learning, I realized that the reason most people seemed receptive to my witnessing was that A) most people could not defend their faith, because it takes a great deal of effort and B) I was using emotionalism as a tool. Also, the fear of Hell was an integral part of the faith, and when I invoked the point of Pascal’s Wager, many came to Christ out of wanting to avoid eternal punishment. Who wouldn’t?
By the time I reached my 28 birthday, I declared without fear of punishment that there was no God. In a very calm, peaceful and rational state of mind, I began to learn all that I could on the actual history of the Christian faith. The more I studied without having any preconceptions, the more I learned that it was not at all what it appeared to be. Nevertheless, I remained a ‘good’ person, except I was pissed that I had been deceived. Over time I went from militant atheist asshole to moderate agnostic and was much more tolerable to be around! I want to make it clear that I did not break away from Christianity out of anger and that I am not a lapsed or backslidden Christian; in fact, I cannot conceive that a monster such as the Christian God could even exist!
Over the next 5 or 6 years, I was happy and content living without faith in a deity, I enjoyed nature so much that it reminded me of when I was a boy and used to either be along the banks of the Scioto or in the woods behind my house. Sunsets, rain, snow, trees and everything else that I watched and felt a connection with, was as if it was the first time that I had noticed them. I began to appreciate friends, family and be more patient. In short, I became a better person after leaving the faith, so while this may have been a matter of maturation, education, learning tolerance and several other things, I decided to give the Christian another Try. Maybe I was wrong and just ill-informed? When I called out this time, I felt nothing. The only difference was that this time I was seeking the truth, not reciting a prayer that was little more than an appeal to my emotions. It was at that point, at 33 years old that I was a confirmed weak atheist/strong agnostic.

That is my background, and while it may seem by my rather condensed testimony that my years spent as a Christian were negative, that is not true; most of my experiences as a Christian were positive! I just feel that it was not for me.
After my spiritual palette had been cleansed for a number of years, out of the blue I was hit with an experience while driving. I was not even interested in searching for anything outside of the physical world, and without even the very desire to seek, something had found me. The only way that I can describe it, is that every fear that I had, every question that I may be been subconsciously dwelling on, was answered in some way. The answers felt as if they were injected into me, and I went into some sort of trance where I was aware that I was driving, but I felt that I was somewhere else and behind the wheel at the same time.
My spiritual appetite had been whetted and I wanted to experience more!
I cautiously studied Deism, Pantheism and several other ‘isms, but none appealed to me. I discovered that I did not want to follow a path already laid before me, but that I wanted to forge my own.

Over the course of the last 3 years, and most likely the reason that I feel that I am overwhelmed, I studied Crowley (hesitantly, because I believed most of the rumors), LaVey (no comment), Mathers, Regardie, Cavendish, Martello and others, but always felt as if their writings and direction were way over my head, too self involved and/or utter bullshit. Kabala, tarot, runes and other methods of scrying evaded me because each one would take a lifetime to master.
I then learned of Chaos Magick, and digested everything that I could get written my Phile Hine, A.O. Spare, Ray Sherwin and others, and it seemed for the longest time, that this was what I was looking for; a belief system that utilized Magickal principals without the trappings and the need for deities. INTENT was the word that ALL Magickal systems were based on, and the only restrictions were the ones imposed by the practitioner.
Now I am at a place when I again feel no direction. I am in a void, incapable of practicing anything! I have the desire to practice, but when I make the time, any other distraction makes it impossible; if no distractions are present, I make them.
Am I being somehow protected from performing a ritual or spell that will cause me to get spiritually bitch-slapped? As an example, a dear friend of the family is being seriously taken advantage of at her job and this has been verified by other people that don’t even know her. The man responsible is a piece of work and I want to curse him. Everything I ‘try’, I cannot seem to do it. It’s as if I cannot ‘get into it’, but I am proud to be Pagan, I love it! Is it a protection of some kind that is not allowing me to perform? I made a Ouija board in an effort to contact dead relatives, friends, my Inner Self, et all, yet I have not even tried to use it, because it seems that I might be getting into something that I do not completely understand.

I know that this is lengthy post, but it comes down to these questions:

1)How do I know which path is for me?
The reason that I got “into” Magick is that I feel it is perfectly natural, and that I can influence situations around me for the greater good.

2)Is there more to Magick than psychology? I know that there is reason to suspect that Magick only takes place in out heads ONLY, but there has to be more than that! Maybe I just want there to be?

3)If Chaos/discordianism are viable paths, should I avoid them until I learn quite a bit more?

4)I have my altar, the tools and the desire; should I start with candle magick? Tarot? I have been dreaming some rather odd dreams, odd in that I remember them! I used to keep a dream diary…..

5)Is there a spell to rekindle that initial love of the craft?

Thanks in advance for reading and any advice that you will give.

[Vigdisdotter]

Hello there, I'll give your questions a shot.

Originally Posted by Heathen1969

1)How do I know which path is for me?
The reason that I got “into” Magick is that I feel it is perfectly natural, and that I can influence situations around me for the greater good.

I'll refer you to my three list exercise. However, it comes down to a lot of leg work on your part.

Originally Posted by Heathen1969

2)Is there more to Magick than psychology? I know that there is reason to suspect that Magick only takes place in out heads ONLY, but there has to be more than that! Maybe I just want there to be?

Yes. I'm sure someone will come along and mention Quantum Physics and the like (I'm not scientifically minded, so it's all Greek to me) but for me, it's about feeling, influencing and directing energy toward my desired goal. Yes, teh mind is a VERY powerful thing, but it's only part of the equation.

Originally Posted by Heathen1969

3)If Chaos/discordianism are viable paths, should I avoid them until I learn quite a bit more?

Not really. Any path you decide on will have new things for you to learn and other things for you to UNlearn as often you will find that the ideas in one path contradict those in another.

In any case, while learning is the goal, at some point you have to make the leap from theoretical to practical. Of course, the only way to accomplish that is by girding your loins and taking the risk of falling on your nose when you try things out.

Originally Posted by Heathen1969

4)I have my altar, the tools and the desire; should I start with candle magick? Tarot? I have been dreaming some rather odd dreams, odd in that I remember them! I used to keep a dream diary…..

Start with whatever draws your interest and is practical for your life/situation. I personally don't do candle magic because my cat is NOT smart about fire an burnt whiskers smell awful.

Originally Posted by Heathen1969

5)Is there a spell to rekindle that initial love of the craft?

Yes. Take a deep breath, go for a walk in nature, take another deep breath and let yourself become aware of everything around you, as well as yourself in the universe. There are incredible amounts of wonder to behold in this world. It's just a matter of taking the time to see it.

[Heathen1969]

Thank you for your reply, I will take it to heart. This weekend I will take a walk in the cold park, it has always helped me focus. Maybe the reason that I am hesitant about doing anything instead of just reading, is that I might be afraid of unleashing something terrible. I mean I do not believe that demons are the fallen angels believed within the Christian faith, but are there "real" demons? Beings that can help or hurt? I have read scads on the subject, but I have not had the nerve to try and reach out and touch one!

[Vigdisdotter]

Originally Posted by Heathen1969

Beings that can help or hurt?

Of course. Anyone that tells you that X path is perfectly safe, is probably selling something.

I doubt it would be a matter of unleashing something so much as your activities calling attention to yourself.

[Heathen1969]

Thanks again!

[Simply Puzzled]

Your post was very well-written, and it let me get an idea of who you are. When you were a teenager, you wanted to belong so you joined with some hard rockers, grew your hair out, and you tried to fit in. But, deep down, it wasn't right. So you found another cause, and you poured your heart and your soul and your life into it, but again, it just didn't fit. You want to be part of something that is all encompassing. For some people, the fact that Christianity fails to account for the stratification of the fossil layer isn't a problem because, well, they don't think about it. But for you, it showed that there was something fundamentally wrong, and you couldn't live with that contradiction.

Fast forward a bit, you're now an atheist because that too explains everything. Until it doesn't. Suddenly, after having found something which, yet again, purported to explain everything, you are confronted with the eternal mystery. So you start researching. But Western Magical Traditions didn't have the answers. They're just symbols and tales to wrap the world up in. Until you find Phil Hine who argues that Western Magical Traditions are just symbols and tales to wrap the world up in. Ah, there it is.

Chaos magic appeals to us because it fits in well with science. We can dismiss the silly ideas of gods sitting around on clouds sipping red wine and say that they were just ways that we have to access something that's universal. It's just another force like strong force or electro-magnetic force. But really, at some point, we are confronted head-on with the fact that it's not scientific.

So this is where I see you: you want a Theory of Everything. You're not the kind of person that can be content with Christianity because it explains the spiritual world when you damn well know it fails to explain the physical one. You can't be happy with science because you know that there is more to the world than just materialism. And you can't be a hard rocker because you know what terrible, terrible music they made. So there you are.

You, deep down in your heart of hearts, have a need for everything to make sense that most people don't. Without this, you have no terra firma from which to stand while working your magic. So you say you need a path, how do I know which one is right for you? For years and years you would have sworn up and down Christianity was the path for you. Other years, you would have said the same of atheism. Because the truth is paths are like lovers. We have them for a time, but you never really know if you'll be together for ever or just for that moment. Instead, date around. Don't rush into a serious relationship. They tie you down too fast. You, of all people, probably recognize this.

And you ask if there is more to magic than psychology. My experiences indicate that there is, but will you take that as evidence? Whatever answer will give will ultimately be unsatisfactory because you need an absolute, air-tight view of the universe, and we just can't give that to you.

And you ask about what forms of magic to use. It's like someone who wants to repair a car starting with "what wrenches should I buy?". Wrenches are important, but it's the wrong question. Figure out where you are, and where you want to be, and the tools that you need will become obvious. You'll look at the nut and go "ah, a 3/4".

I say this because often, the hardest part about doing something is learning to ask the right questions. I think your last one is the best. I guess I'll leave you with another question: "is there a spell that could rekindle the love of Christ in you?"

I honestly don't feel like I have much in the way of advice to offer you. In Tarot, my skill is not in showing where people should go so much as exactly where they are. I thought perhaps a bit of reflection from someone else might be helpful. Good luck on your path. I truly hope that you find the grail you're seeking.

B*B,

Cj

[Heathen1969]

SimplyPuzzled, thank you for your reply, it seems that you have pinpointed the issue (or at least one of them). I AM in fact looking for a Universal Theory of Everything! In my right handed mind, there should be a formula that one can follow and obtain results and that will explain everything, even if it seems impractical or contradictory. I am seeking the elusive Unified Everything Theory, and I submit it is because I want to be in control, and the only way that I can be in control is if I understand everything. In my profession I try to not only understand protocols and switching, but how and why does this packet travel to this device as opposed to another. In reality, there are people that are much more efficient than me simply because they don't know and don't care; they just know how to effect change in order to fix the current problem.
Until now, I have never really thought about my "problem" in those terms, but it makes sense!
Your example of the wrenches was enlightening, and once again, you nailed it.
Regarding Christianity, I understand what you mean, but when I believed as a Christian, I wasn't looking to explain anything, because I did not yet have the ability to even think of The Question, much less go about any effort to start seeking. Rather "it" found me. The reason that I departed the Christian faith wasn't because it didn't explain the physical world, but because it was composed to myths, outright lies and deceptions and a creepy brainwashing element. Before if I had come across a contradiction or something that evoked a question, I would pray about it and gently seek the 'console of many', but I could only do that for so long. It seems that you were on to something; the scientific method replaced my faith because it made more sense!
However, Magick has never made sense, and I guess that is what draws me to it; the novelty of it, the clear results that others experience exceeds mere positive thinking and the apparent randomness of it that cannot be explained by the cold and stoic answers of science.
I have tried a spell to rekindle my past love for the Christian God, but unless I suffer long and short term memory loss, there is no way that I can see that I would be able to forget the atrocities contained within the very book that is supposed to champion Him. The very concept of a hell, which is what eventually became the cornerstone of my defection from that UNholy faith, is an untenable position and I cannot reconcile that with any being that was so evil that he created it.
Unless of course I am in a state of misunderstanding, to which I reply that I understand to the best of my ability and therefore 'should' not be culpable.

So, yes, Chaos seems to be wide enough with more variety and concepts to explore, that I will never get bored (is this my problem?) and never lose interest.
An airtight explanation of the universe would be great, and if I am in fact seeking that, it would serve to explain why I feel that I am lost all the time, since I am chasing a unicorn.
After reading my question (number 5) was written in a moment of weakness and I appear to be asking someone to hold my hand and lead me, but I really do not want to be led, only pointed in a direction that might yield 'something'. I would like to hear more of your thoughts, you appear to be incredibly wise!
I am rambling again, but I will reread your post and think about your points more deeply. I cannot thank you enough for challenging me, I feel this is very helpful and what I need at the moment.

[skilly-nilly]

Originally Posted by Heathen1969

1)How do I know which path is for me?
The reason that I got “into” Magick is that I feel it is perfectly natural, and that I can influence situations around me for the greater good.

2)Is there more to Magick than psychology? I know that there is reason to suspect that Magick only takes place in out heads ONLY, but there has to be more than that! Maybe I just want there to be?

3)If Chaos/discordianism are viable paths, should I avoid them until I learn quite a bit more?

4)I have my altar, the tools and the desire; should I start with candle magick? Tarot? I have been dreaming some rather odd dreams, odd in that I remember them! I used to keep a dream diary…..

5)Is there a spell to rekindle that initial love of the craft?

Thanks in advance for reading and any advice that you will give.

Thoughts that occurred to me reading your post:
You should always read things that challenge your faith firstly because faith should withstand challenges and secondly because faith shouldn't be based on misinformation. For example, when you found that science books written by scientists are God-neutral and not God-denying. I personally believe that the Creating God made the world by means of evolution so I don't feel that belief in the Gods and Evolution are at all incompatible.

Also, cursing is tricky. I believe that in general if one attempts a spellworking beyond one's abilities it doesn't result in demons or bad results but in no results. It's as if I tried to play the trumpet-- nothing much would happen.
That said, cursing is tricky (imo) because you are meddling with just deserts rather than influencing outcome. That is-- if you spellcast to have your friend be appreciated rightly or to have the man responsible to be seen as he is by others/management that is influencing outcome. You are merely asking that the Gods assist other's perceptions of what is really there; your friend's good work and the man's bad actions. If you 'curse' the man; that is if you invoke evil to happen to him, you are asking to create events outside his own actions. Which is do-able but tricky.

In my world, spellwork is a process of negotiating with forces/beings/energy larger than myself-- I fully realize that not everyone agrees with my perception of spellwork as a religious activity.
Fine with them, not for me, I won't debate it.

But if my perception of Magic is valid (you can make up your own mind) you incur a sizeable debt by asking for event creation, and you will be expected to give back something for it. Dedication, perhaps. Responsibility for the bad man, perhaps. Making some difficult effort, generally.

So in your case I would fall back on my standard curse,
"May you get exactly what you deserve"
and I therefore stand ready to get, in return, exactly what I deserve.

1) I think Chaos Magic is very interesting and if that's what sparks your interest that's the way you determine "which path is for me".

2) Everything that you experience "only takes place in out heads ONLY" why should Magic be different?

3) It's like firecrackers-- if one doesn't light, exercise due caution. As long as you don't pick up your failed spell and poke at it, trying to get it to re-light, you won't risk having it blow up in your hand.

4) Dream diaries are potent.

5) Do. Make it a part of how you think by habituation.

That's, of course, just my opinion.