Detroit as the Liberal Model?

[Kraheera]

From an insider's point of view.... it wasn't just the auto industry that Michigan itself depended on. Michigan (in the U.P at least) is very rich in iron ore. The mining of said iron ore was profitable, and it was cheaper to ship it within state. Steel is not just used in the making of cars, but also in the making of buildings, streets... hell, basic infrastructure.

All of the support went belly up when the auto makers left town, but WHY?

The problem is not able to be blamed on just one party. Michigan has changed hands a few times. The feds have changed hands a few times. And yet, in my 24 years, I've never seen the feds pay much attention to Michigan until now. And now it's the model of "we don't want the rest of the nation to be like THAT."

But it isn't just the state/fed at fault. It's the people too. Why haven't any of us come up with inovations, NEW ways for Michigan to claw its way out of the ooze? WHY haven't the people within the unions FORCED the unions to back down? Why haven't the people stood up and changed things for themselves?

Blame it on reliance, co-dependence, it is ALL at fault. But most of all... I blame it on greed. Greed on the part of Unions, and Greed on the part of corporations.. If it had just been the unions that drove auto industries out of Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana then the other states would be flourishing, right? WRONG.

American companies went to MEXICO. Where they didn't have to worry about a living wage, or fair compensation. Where they could get the biggest profit for the least amount of pay.

GREED is at the bottom of the economic troubles. There is very little sense of community tie, very little sense of HUMANITY in corporations these days. All they see is the short term benefits, not the long term damage to customer satisfaction, which will eventually affect their profits.

P.S. It wasn't just the auto industry, or industries directly related to auto. Pharmaceuticals have hightailed it. Logging has fallen off. We as a nation have begun importing more and more, when we HAVE almost everything we need right here. WHY? We need building supplies? I can point at state after state that has plenty of lumber that can be safely taken. Replanting is NOT that expensive. We need steel for cityscapes? I can point at more than one state that has so much iron the WATER is red (and where if you have anemia people look at you funny, trust me.) You need food? Good god! We have food falling out of our pockets! WHY do we import so much, and export so little? Perhaps if we didn't rely so heavily on the importation of goods, and instead created jobs utilizing what our LAND provides (in a nice "green" way of course), then we would not only stimulate our economy and get people back to work, we wouldn't be at the mercy of other nations when it comes to essential supplies. Or worry about the failure of Chinese QA offices. (Let's face it... POISON in dog food, cat food, infant formula, and the horrid drywall fiasco? You think we'd have learned our lesson by now. NOTHING is safe that comes out of China, as far as goods go.)

[Little Billy]

Originally Posted by memnoch

Reagan busted some unions about the time Thatcher did...we could definitely use someone who will do it again though

Sure. Because it's okay for management to be organized, but not for labor to do the same.

[Little Billy]

Originally Posted by Wolfpoet

Unions are evil, hell I'm in one and I think this.

Yeah, all they ever did was give us the weekend.

Bastards.

[memnoch]

Originally Posted by Little Billy

Yeah, all they ever did was give us the weekend.

Bastards.

Just because a group did something good well over 50 years ago doesn't mean what they do today is good

[Wolf O Volos]

I am with the Greed, Apapthy, Co-Dependant theory here. Cant say it is JUST union issues, or that it has ALWAYS been the left wing policies that have caused this sort of downfall in a city like Detroit... Easy enough to find scapegoats. But not so easy to have a look in a mirror and realize the problem started with the constituants that have just sat back with their legs up and said "Not my problem, let the government fix this for me"

maybe that's just my cracked P.O.V. eh

[memnoch]

Originally Posted by Wolf O Volos

I am with the Greed, Apapthy, Co-Dependant theory here. Cant say it is JUST union issues, or that it has ALWAYS been the left wing policies that have caused this sort of downfall in a city like Detroit... Easy enough to find scapegoats. But not so easy to have a look in a mirror and realize the problem started with the constituants that have just sat back with their legs up and said "Not my problem, let the government fix this for me"

maybe that's just my cracked P.O.V. eh

I fully endorse this post

[Kraheera]

Originally Posted by Wolf O Volos

I am with the Greed, Apapthy, Co-Dependant theory here. Cant say it is JUST union issues, or that it has ALWAYS been the left wing policies that have caused this sort of downfall in a city like Detroit... Easy enough to find scapegoats. But not so easy to have a look in a mirror and realize the problem started with the constituants that have just sat back with their legs up and said "Not my problem, let the government fix this for me"

maybe that's just my cracked P.O.V. eh

Precisely. People just assume that someone else will take care of the problems, and then they are shocked and angry when it isn't. In this case, the companies picked up and said "screw you".

Now people are pitching a fit to high heaven. And all I can say is "Didn't you SEE this coming? Without giving them incentives to stay in the US, they won't. Because it is CHEAPER to build CHEAP parts in another country, assemble them in another country, and then ship them here."

And I'm not talking just monetary incentives, like tax breaks. I'm talking about REAL negotiation. I'm talking state and federal governments making it more expensive to move out of our borders, for our people to STOP buying crap made in other countries. Yes, insular protectionism is sometimes bad. But when you have a huge number of unemployed, and a huge downturn in the economy, tactics must be changed. In order to buy from other countries without risking our soft underbellies, we must first build up the armor of our economy from within.

And that means... "TADA!!!!" buying from American companies that build their stuff IN AMERICA... where Americans will have jobs.

Let our farmers sell their produce here. Overhaul the industries. REBUILD our forsaken infrastructure, because let me tell you, it's seriously out of date. Don't just look at immediate results, look at down the line. Fixing our highways and power grids, etc... would not only benefit the immediate economy, but also the future.

THAT is the sort of impact we should be going for.