Reflections of a Random Catholic II: Christian Worship and the Soul's Destiny

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Originally Posted by David19

I'm still having a bit of trouble understanding this idea, I'm slowly understanding more, thanks to you and Jon, but, I'm having difficulty with understanding what exactly the pre-Fall Nature of Adam and Eve is, would it be something akin to being like gods, or godlike (e.g. in power, in immortality, etc), would it be being higher than gods (excluding what is called God, with a capital G), or is it totally something else?.

The two things that stand out the most are immortality and impassibility (you do not feel pain or harm). Some others are lack of concupiscience (free from 'animal' urges) and lordship over the Earth.

I remember Jon posted in another thread where I was asking this question, a quote from one of the Desert Fathers, where the Desert Father showed part of the Path we must follow is being able to develop powers, akin to Jesus (like I think, in Jon's example, the Desert Father produced fire from his hand, or something similar), so, I'd really appreciate any help in understanding more, or, any books or sites that might be able to go into it more (but, in an understandable manner, not where you need to have a PHD in Theology to understand it ).

I'm actually enjoying this thread, and others like it, as I like learning about the topics that come up, and, I'm learning a lot of new things about Christianity I didn't know before.

Well, it depends on what direction you want to go. Western Christianity and Eastern Christianity, while similar on the surface, actually get quite polar when you get down to the minutiae.

I personally love the Orthodox Church, if only for the chanting (which can be listened to here). If you want a good book to read that lays it out fairly well, but isn't *too* deep is the tried and true The Orthodox Way by Timothy Ware (it was written when he was Timothy but it may listed under Kallistos as he is now a bishop).

If you want something from Western Christianity, ie Latin Catholicism and Anglicanism, then you might want John to help you with that.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Thank you for this part of your post , David...

And to John...in no way , shape , or form , was I
seeking to insult , degrade , or belittle your opinion...

I do feel I was misunderstood , and would care to
attempt to remedy that...you see , not only was I
born into Roman Catholicism , I was baptized , and
recieved confirmation...

And I attended catechism , and was in Catholic school ,
for a number of years...though I walked away from the
religion , and am an elder in the Faery Tradition , I ,
as I understand what I was taught , am still considered
to be in the church , as I was never excommunicated...

So , given that...and having never heard some of the things
you stated in your original post , either in my classes , or
from any priests , found some things , to be not personally
patable , within my Christian upraising...

Since you asked for comments...I offered mine...

I am sorry , if you , or anyone , view them as a direct , or
indirect attack...just certain things felt alien to me , even
from my Christian upbringing , and if I had known them ,
I would have questioned them then , at an early age...

I hope that helps clear some statements up , and opens more
discussion...which is what I originally intended...

Whether anyone else sees that...or not...Blessings...

Originally Posted by David19

Well, personally, the problem I have with a lot of faiths (and this is far from a Christian issue, but, extends to Pagan religions as well) that other religions and Paths don't make room for other religions, I mean, every Path thinks they're the "right way", even Atheists do this, I just wish people, of every Path, could just say "this is the right way for me", and so much conflict could be avoided, I mean, there are Hellenic Recons who believe their way is the best way, and, think the world would be better if Hellenismos was the dominant force in the world, same goes for Wiccans, Christians, Muslims, even the Ultra Orthodox Jews, and Hindus, it's even infected some Buddhists too (although, Buddhism seems to be one of the most accepting Faiths/Paths). Anyway, I know this isn't the right place for my mini-rant, so, sorry for taking this thread off track, I was just responding to something Toby said.

[David19]

Originally Posted by GabrielWithoutWings

The two things that stand out the most are immortality and impassibility (you do not feel pain or harm). Some others are lack of concupiscience (free from 'animal' urges) and lordship over the Earth.

Thanks for telling me that, if you don't mind me asking, is immortality also tied in with an eternally youthful body, as I've read on various Christian sites that the future body will be one of eternal youth?.

Also, again if you don't mind me asking, what does lordship over the earth mean?.

I think I am understanding more, though, so, if I understand it right, the goal is to become like Jesus, by being able to use the same types of powers he had, immortal, etc? (I know I'm simplifying things a lot, it just helps me understand more).

Well, it depends on what direction you want to go. Western Christianity and Eastern Christianity, while similar on the surface, actually get quite polar when you get down to the minutiae.

I personally love the Orthodox Church, if only for the chanting (which can be listened to here). If you want a good book to read that lays it out fairly well, but isn't *too* deep is the tried and true The Orthodox Way by Timothy Ware (it was written when he was Timothy but it may listed under Kallistos as he is now a bishop).

If you want something from Western Christianity, ie Latin Catholicism and Anglicanism, then you might want John to help you with that.

I don't don't know too much about the Eastern Church, but, I do like learning about them, some of their traditions seem more meditative/mystical (although, I'm not saying, Western Churches lack that element either), thanks for the link, BTW, and that book recommendation, I'll look it up .

Originally Posted by Shawn Blackwolf

Thank you for this part of your post , David...

No problem, I'm glad you liked it, personally, I really think there'd be less problems in the world and with each other, if more people came to that realization.

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Also, while you may know about how Christianity regards homosexual relationships, you may (as a gay male) be interested in the writings, spirituality, and life of one Blessed Hieromonk Father Seraphim Rose who was openly homosexual at the beginning of his life and later became a very pious and well-known monk.

[David19]

Originally Posted by GabrielWithoutWings

Also, while you may know about how Christianity regards homosexual relationships, you may (as a gay male) be interested in the writings, spirituality, and life of one Blessed Hieromonk Father Seraphim Rose who was openly homosexual at the beginning of his life and later became a very pious and well-known monk.

Thanks for that info, I'll definitely look into him, he sounds very interesting.